[Killer]

I have emerged from my winter cave with the results of much research, and possibly this site's longest post. For anyone interested...

I thought it would be interesting to measure some of my favorite mountains in WA to see which ones were biggest/steepest from top to bottom. Instead of looking at the elevation of a peak, which does not tell you how tall a mountain is, only how high above sea level it is, I measured summit to immediate valley -- vertical relief. A tall mountain may not be impressive if it isn't steep, so I measured steepness, too.

I borrowed a formula devised by Edward Earl from the Yahoo Prominence group to come up with values that factor both height and steepness.

He calls it "Cliff Measure" or CM = (rise^2)/(rise+run).

To make the numbers more intuitive:
A 1,000 ft flagpole gets a CM of 1,000. A 1,000 ft hill with a 45-degree slope gets a score of 500. Basically take the vertical relief of the peak and subtract from that number based on the steepness (or lack of steepness) of the slope.

It's difficult to figure out the maximum CM for a peak without writing a program to do it, so I made an educated guess. Usually that meant measuring from the summit down the mountain until the terrain starts to flatten out in the valley below.

However, David Metzler, a mathematician, mountain afficionado and all-around good guy, did figure out some maximum CMs for comparison to some of the planet's best:

Peak                            Max CM
---------------------------------------
Rainier                        3320 feet
Davis Pk (N Cascades)          2717
Half Dome                      2714
El Capitan                      2431
Whitney                        1936

Logan                          6043
Denali                          6027

Annapurna Fang                  7792
Gurja Himal                    7769

--------------------------------------------------------------
Here are some of my calculations, best read with a fixed-width font

---Cascades---

Peak    Vertical Relief (ft)  Distance (mi)  Aspect  CM

Davis Pk *    5,623          1.19          ne      2655.6
Castle Rock    7,100          2.30          east    2619.5
Rainier **    11,400          7.50          nw      2548.2
McGregor      6,700          2.10          south  2523.6
Tricouni      6,082          1.64          east    2509.3
Goode          6,000          1.60          ne      2491.7
Despair        5,763          1.47          east    2455.7
Agnes          5,771          1.48          north    2451.5
Elephant Butte 5,220          1.14          north    2424.4
Rainier      12,000          9.00          sw      2419.4
Eldorado      6,386          2.00          west    2406.5
Jack          7,450          3.00          west    2383.1
HiddenLakeLO  5,830          1.60          sw      2380.5
Blum          6,750          2.35          north  2378.2
Hozomeen      5,040          1.09          north  2353.0
Big Devil      6,635          2.30          north    2344.3
Colonial      6,500          2.20          ne      2332.2
Luna          5,100          1.15        north    2328.1
Johannesburg  5,450          1.40          north    2312.9
Flora          7,300          3.00          east    2302.9
Primus        6,500          2.25        north    2298.7
Ruby          6,200          2.00          west    2293.6
Snowking ne ridge 4,514        0.85          ne      2263.5
Snowfield subpk 6,137          2.00          south    2255.7
Davis Pk      6,100          2.00          south    2233.5
Whitehorse    6,100          2.00          north    2233.5
Primus        6,535          2.40          east    2223.5
Pt 6872 (l beaver crk) 4,522  0.89        north    2217.6
Sloan Pk      5,540          1.60          se      2194.1
Forbidden      6,100          2.10        south    2164.9
Big Four      4,200          0.75        north    2161.8
Crater        6,250          2.24        south    2160.9
Triumph        5,000          1.25        north    2155.2
Pugh          6,194          2.20          west    2154.2
Eldorado      7,000          3.00          west    2145.4
Terror        7,000          3.00        south    2145.4
Baring        3,675          0.50        north    2138.7
Pyramid Mtn *** 7,145          3.20          east    2123.5
Booker        5,660          1.80        south    2112.6
White Chuck    5,801          1.92        south    2111.5
Three Fingers  4,000          0.70          east    2079.0
Jack          6,665          2.80        north    2071.1
Luna          5,815          2.00        south    2065.0
Johannesburg  6,800          3.00          west    2042.4
Pioneer RidgeW 4,245          0.88          west    2026.7
Shuksan        4,590          1.10        north    2026.2
1660m          4,350          0.95        south    2020.3
Formidable    5,969          2.29          west    2020.0
Dome          6,000          2.25        south    2013.4
Garfield      4,000          0.75        south    2010.1
Index          3,231          0.38          west    1993.2
Baring        3,138          0.35        north    1974.9
Shuksan        8,260          5.00          se      1968.5
Booker        4,019          0.83          ne      1922.6
Hozomeen      6,450          2.90          west    1911.7
Baring        5,265          1.75          sw      1911.1
Glacier Pk    7,034          3.60          west    1900.0
Church        5,150          1.70          south    1877.6
Baker        10,150          8.50          se      1872.1
Goode          5,300          1.85          sw      1864.2
Snowfield      7,100          3.80          east    1855.8
Blum          7,180          4.00          west    1821.6
Garfield      4,460          1.25          south    1798.5
Logan          7,000          3.85            nw    1793.0
Shuksan        4,770          1.50            ne    1793.0
Triumph        6,300          3.00          east    1792.7
Pioneer Ridge  4,100          1.00          north  1792.1
Challenger    5,000          1.70          east    1788.8
Buckner        6,000          2.70          south  1777.3
Shuksan ****  8,431          6.00          south  1772.1
Index          3,220          0.50          north  1769.4

* Davis Peak near Newhalem, believed to be the only place in the lower 48 that drops over one vertical mile within one horizontal mile. Max CM is 2,717 according to David Metzler. You can see the upper NE face from the Diablo Lake overlook.
** Metzler calculated Rainier's max CM to be 3,320, by far the best in the lower 48 - Point Success to Kautz Creek: 9,022 feet in 2.89 miles.
*** This measures to the edge of Lake Chelan. Interestingly, the lake's deepest point is near this peak, which makes 8,631 ft of vertical, the deepest gorge in North America. To the middle of the lake it is 3.75 miles, for a CM roughly of 2620, just guessing.
**** Probably the greatest vertical relief for a non-volcanic peak in WA. The CM isn't very high because this measures over the relatively flat and expansive Sulphide Glacier. This measures to the surface of dam-made Baker Lake.

Here are a few other major peaks in the lower 48. Again, not necessarily max CM:

---Olympics---

Vertical          Distance      Aspect  CM
Constance    6,823            3.04          south  2035.19
Carrie      5,645            2.45          sw      1714.98
Tom          5,624            2.50          sw      1680.78
Anderson    4,315            1.36          east    1619.65
Brothers    3,726            1.00          se      1541.54
Olympus      7,000            5.43          nw      1373.69
Olympus      5,503            3.70          se      1209.43


---Sierras---
I used the book "The High Sierra: Peaks, Passes and Trails" to identify the major peaks in the range. The biggest peaks in the Sierras are the fault block escarpments like San Jacinto and the eastern wall of the high sierra. These peaks get significant extra vertical from abutting large valleys that drop slowly. I measured both to the edge of the valley and to the deepest points in the valleys. The huge steep walls of Yosemite also make high CMs, with Half Dome the highest in CA at CM=2714 according to Metzler.

CM      Peak        Vertical  Distance Aspect

2649.9  San Jacinto  8,867      3.94  north
2286.5  El Cap        3,134      0.22  south (the nose)
2246.8  San Jacinto  10,175      6.80  east
2241.3  Lone Pine    6,985      2.80  east (to edge of valley)
2234.0  Williamson    8,383      4.37  east (to edge of valley)
2035.9  El Cap        3,550      0.50  south
2003.5  Telescope    10,024      7.60  west (to edge of valley)
1799.6  Whitney *    7,919      5.10  east (to edge of valley)
1732.0  Telescope    9,049      7.24  east (to edge of valley)
1698.0  Telescope    11,256      12.00  east
1642.1  Morrison      4,635      1.60  north
1491.4  Whitney      10,695      12.50  east
1295.1  Humphreys    7,000      5.84  east
1218.2  Mt Sill      4,585      2.40  east
1204.8  Whitney      2,000      0.25  east face
1150.0  Ritter        3,885      1.75  east
1117.0  Matterhorn Pk 5,200      3.60  north
1102.2  Black Kaweah  4,405      2.50  south
1060.4  N Palisade    4,000      2.10  north
990.6  Winchell      5,056      3.93  west
638.4  Darwin        4,005      4.00  ne
472.2  Darwin        2,981      3.00  west

* Whitney Max CM is 1936


---Rockies---
Obviously not comprehensive, I don't have software for this region, maybe someone with topo software and a lot of time on their hands can fill out this list.

Peak      Vertical  Distance  Aspect    CM

MT
Kinnerly*  5,550      1.13    north    2680.8

WY
Grand Teton 6,910      3.00    east      2098.8 
Squaretop  3,595      0.72    north    1747.2

CO
Sopris W    6,307      2.62    west      1975.0
N Maroon    3,814      0.87    east      1730.2
Maroon      3,756      0.89    east      1668.5
Sneffels    4,550      1.43    nw        1710.8
Longs      2,455      0.48    ne        1207.9  to chasm lake
Longs      5,950      5.08    east      1080.2 
Blanca      5,745      6.84    se        788.4 
Blanca      1,945      0.30    north    1071.9 
Pikes Pk    3,010      1.21    north      963.9 
Pikes Pk ** 5,110      3.83    east      1030.7  to Hell Gate


* Glacier NP, one of the top contenders in the lower 48 for big, steep faces.
** I deemed this the maximum vertical for Pikes, though it is subjective.

[polarbear-]

So where would Mt. Stuart fall in that list (or do we have to wait until next Spring)?

[Blake]

That is very cool! i'm surprised that Mcgregor doesn't go down a mile within a radius of one mile from the top, i think it must be close, since that pretty much towers above a valley 7,000 feet below.

[2drx]

It would be quite decent, I must say - if your moniker was named after this album.  One of my all time faves.

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www.2drx.com

[Backpacker Joe]

Good lord.  You are a sick man/woman!    

That is a LOT of information.  Thanks.



TB

[rubberlegs]

Steve Fry published a similar list in the old Signpost Magazine about 15-20 years ago. I have a copy at work... he measured steepest faces in 0.1 and 1.0 miles. Mt Baring was the steepest face in 0.1 miles horizontal. He had some data on non-Cascade peaks for comparison also...

[smmslt]

Metzler went beyond Cliff Measure to devise a formula for computing the "impressiveness" of an entire mountain, factoring local relief and slope of a peak against the surrounding terrain. The discussion of Spire Measure and a number of interesting links can be found here. Pretty interesting stuff.

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So many mountains, so little time!

[rubberlegs]

Jim Brisbine attempts a "projection" measurement on his list of major peaks:

Washington's Major Peaks

[papps]

[Killer]

Thanks for the photo. I couldn't find that view anywhere on the Internet.

[paps]

[rubberlegs]

"Washington's Steepest Mountain Faces", from Signpost April 1984, pp 14-17.

In .1 mile, in order, top 5: Baring, S Hozomeen, Davis, SE Twin Spire, Index... ah what the heck... Copper Lake Wall, bear Mt, N Pk Garfield, Booker, SW Hozomeen, SW Hozomeen again???, Tomyhoi, Peak 7895 (Mt Spickard quad), Shuksan, Three Fingers, Bullen, S Hozomeen again?!!, Hozomeen (yawn... again...), Pass Creek Cliff (USGS Mt Challenger, S end Mineral Mt massif), Lemah.

In 1 mile: Davis, Johannesburg, Luna, Elephant, Hozomeen, Colonial, McMillan Spire, Whitehorse, Rainier, Jack, S Hozomeen, Colonial again, Chimney Pk, Storm King, Shuksan, Buck, Spickard, Peak 6972 (Snowfield Peak massif, USGS Ross Dam), Terror, Booker.

[Miss Normandy]

Somebody posted something a week or so back about a hike in the CR Gorge (or was it somewhere else in Oregon?) that was like Si in the great vertical climb in only 5 miles... well I'm going to be in the Portland area for a week and I wanted to check it out but I've been scouring the site and I can't find it anywhere. Little help? I think it had the word Creek in the name.

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Support Search and Rescue.      GET LOST!

[-florida]

Mt Defiance/Starvation Creek...

[-florida]

more info....
Starvation Ridge Trail is probably the one you are talking about...
5.6 miles 3000' elev. in less than 4 miles (total gain 3600')

The trail is described in the Falcon Guide "Hiking the Columbia River Gorge" It would probably be worth picking it up. Or I could probably copy and fax to you somewhere.... Just a thought....