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MtnGoat
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PostTue Apr 02, 2002 1:04 pm 
"Rock climbing harms cliff ecosystems While it stands to reason that rock climbers might harm habitats such as the ancient, stunted forests that grow on cliffs around the world, there has been little unambiguous evidence that this is so. Now the first study to isolate rock climbing from other factors confirms that the sport damages cliff ecosystems. "Our work clearly shows that rock outcrop ecosystems suffer dramatically when exposed to recreational rock climbing," says Douglas Larson of the University of Guelph in Ontario, Canada. This work is presented in the April issue of Conservation Biology by Larson and Michele McMillan, who is also of the University of Guelph. The popularity of rock climbing has soared in North America over the last 20 years, disturbing areas that had been untouched for ages. However, previous studies on the ecological effects of rock climbing have been contradictory. McMillan and Larson studied the ecological effects of rock climbing on vegetation (vascular plants, bryophytes and lichens) on the heavily-climbed limestone cliffs of the Niagara Escarpment, which is near Toronto in southern Ontario. These cliffs have the most ancient forest east of the Rocky Mountains, with eastern white cedars that are more than 1,000 years old. The researchers compared the vegetation on three parts -- the top edge (plateau), the middle (cliff face) and the base (talus) -- of climbed and unclimbed cliffs. The researchers found that rock climbing greatly decreases the diversity of vegetation on cliffs. Notably, climbed faces had only 4% as many vascular plant species as those that were unclimbed. Moreover, the diversity of bryophytes and lichens in climbed areas were roughly 30 and 40% of that in climbed areas, respectively. Rock climbing also decreases the cover of vegetation on cliffs. For vascular plants, the cover on climbed plateau and talus was roughly 60% of that on unclimbed areas. For bryophytes, the cover on climbed plateau and talus was about a fifth of that on unclimbed areas. While climbing did not affect the extent of lichen cover, it did change the types of species that grow on cliffs. Delicate lichen species were replaced by tough ones: in unclimbed areas the most common lichens are so fragile that they crumble to the touch, while in climbed areas the most common lichens are so sturdy that they can even withstand rubbing. McMillan and Larson also found that in climbed areas, the proportion of non-native plants was three times higher (81 vs. 27%). Rock climbing reduces plant density, thus increasing the number of sites where non-native plants can grow. Furthermore, rock climbers can introduce seeds and living pieces of non-native plants via their shoes, clothing and equipment. To help protect cliff ecosystems, McMillan and Larson recommend banning new climbing routes in protected areas along the Niagara Escarpment, and explaining why to rock climbing associations and schools. "Recreationists are far more likely to abide by management plans when they are aware of the ecological rationale behind the restrictions," say the researchers. " http://www.eurekalert.org/pub_releases/2002-04/sfcb-rch040102.php

Diplomacy is the art of saying 'Nice doggie' until you can find a rock. - Will Rogers
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catwoman
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PostTue Apr 02, 2002 2:37 pm 
Hey MtnGoat! I heard on the news about a week ago that a bunch of tags on trees that were tagged for preservation were removed (seriously). Didju do that?!

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MtnGoat
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PostTue Apr 02, 2002 3:02 pm 
Now why would I do that? My neighbors already hate me because I refuse to cut trees blocking "their" sunshine, I'm certainly not going to go out and screw with trees tagged for preservation. tongue.gif

Diplomacy is the art of saying 'Nice doggie' until you can find a rock. - Will Rogers
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catwoman
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PostTue Apr 02, 2002 4:11 pm 
Ahhhhh, but the point is that they were tagged! There would be no way of you knowing WHY they were tagged, but you are so adamant about removing any flagging of any sort.

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MtnGoat
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PostTue Apr 02, 2002 4:56 pm 
Give me a break. I am not adamant about removing flagging of "any" sort, I am adamant about removing non-approved route markers (which are illegally placed to begin with). I'm pretty sure trees flagged for preservation are not found in the middle of wilderness areas surrounded by other trees *already* protected simply by being in wilderness. I'm also reasonably sure the flagging on said trees probably says something like "do not cut this tree". If you're interested in stirring up trouble you've come to the right place. For someone often very concerned with thread drift you're sure doing your bit for drift here, for example. If we wish to continue this, I'm more than willing. I take serious exception to the insinuation of being a vandal. I'm pretty easygoing and like any kind of debate, but when these kinds of comments are made my goodwill and patience meet the end of the road. Actually though, I thought the article itself was an interesting take on climbing impacts, and would rather discuss that with interested parties.

Diplomacy is the art of saying 'Nice doggie' until you can find a rock. - Will Rogers
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McPilchuck
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PostTue Apr 02, 2002 5:07 pm 
Very interesting. Sounds similar to the NPS wanting to ban fixed bolts and other climbing gear because it mars the rock and is eyesore to the birds. Seems rather absurd to me, but I can understand that mass quantities of human impact can seriously affect the environment. However, we must remember not to exclude ourselves from what we wish to preserve, perhaps limit, but not exclude. Don't want to get off the subject, but any flagging I find goes into my pockets (not flagging attached to climbers glacier poles) to be thrown in the garbage at home. I've been removing it for years and will continue to do so no matter what anyone else thinks, cause that's my way with nature and the wild. If flagging is needed, perhaps one doesn't belong there?

in the granite high-wild alpine land . . . www.alpinequest.com
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MtnGoat
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PostTue Apr 02, 2002 5:10 pm 
Didn't the FS study applying the bolt ban to wilderness areas?

Diplomacy is the art of saying 'Nice doggie' until you can find a rock. - Will Rogers
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McPilchuck
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PostTue Apr 02, 2002 5:24 pm 
Mtn. Goat, I am not sure whether the NPF or FS ever adopted that, as they took alot of flack in the concept. I am with you on the flagging issue as it doesn't belong in wilderness areas. Usually any flagging designation on a tree to be preserved will be marked in a relativly lowland area where cutting may be occuring, as in FS or park boundries, but I suspect by your post you already knew that. BTW, your thread is interesting, and I like reading things like this, thanks for the vector of it.

in the granite high-wild alpine land . . . www.alpinequest.com
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MtnGoat
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PostTue Apr 02, 2002 5:35 pm 
Hey, no problem, chewy stuff topics like this are my fav. For more even more fireworks prone chewiness, check out the thread in the Bar-n-Grill on renewable resources. yah, and trees flagged for preservation are usually quite clearly marked as such as you note. It frosts me when someone insinuates I'd interfere with preservation efforts by going out and messing up identification plans is all. I'm pretty certain trees marked for preservation are not in a single line, up an offtrail hillside, in wilderness.

Diplomacy is the art of saying 'Nice doggie' until you can find a rock. - Will Rogers
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catwoman
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PostTue Apr 02, 2002 6:59 pm 
My God! Touchy, touchy! Didn't realize I needed to put a wink after what I thought was obvious in my post. No sense of humor. Nevermind already! yawn.gif

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#19
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PostTue Apr 02, 2002 8:20 pm 
Catwoman, I put six of these lol.gif after a recent post and still got one serious response. But I know Mtngoats flagging stance and I couldn't tell you were joking either. It's hard to know sometimes what someone really means with their written words. I'd bet its all covered over at cc anyway. No need for me to defend the little bryophytes from the big bad climbers. wink.gif

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Backpacker Joe
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PostTue Apr 02, 2002 10:26 pm 
Well take whatever stand you like, if I find engineer tape it's coming DOWN! Into my pocket actually. It's not difficult to tell when some jackass has placed tape. 99% of the time it's not needed. 100% of the time its litter! TB

"If destruction be our lot we must ourselves be its author and finisher. As a nation of freemen we must live through all time or die by suicide." — Abraham Lincoln
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polarbear
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PostTue Apr 02, 2002 11:20 pm 
So is the researcher's viewpoint extremist or not? It seems alot of climbing routes could be banned based on missing lichens or such. Where do you draw the line. I was planning on brushing my teeth tonight, but now I am worried about disturing the ecosystem there.

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polarbear
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PostTue Apr 02, 2002 11:40 pm 
Okay, I finally decided to brush my teeth. My reasoning is that there wouldn't be any dentists in business if brushing permanently destroyed the delicate ecosystem. Yes, the teeth lichens are gone today but they will return, and I can help restore the balance by drinking a coke at lunch according to several people I've talked with. biggrin.gif <----colgate tongue.gif <----a day without brushing

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Backpacker Joe
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PostTue Apr 02, 2002 11:58 pm 
P-bear, where were you when Dean Martin's celebrity roasts were going on? I think we all should just kill ourselves in advance of what we MIGHT do, and the impact it could cause! P-correctness and the fact that people just DO NOT KNOW HOW TO ACT anymore sucks! TB

"If destruction be our lot we must ourselves be its author and finisher. As a nation of freemen we must live through all time or die by suicide." — Abraham Lincoln
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