[Tom]

Hey Chris, just wondering, where did you look? I'd usually go to consumer reports but most of their online stuff usually requires a subscription, so I never bother trying anymore.

[MtnGoat]

msn carpoint is pretty decent.

[Dante]

For those of you who want an SUV that gets great mileage, who like bleeding edge technology and have had better luck than me with Fords, there's always the 2003 Hybrid Escape SUV I've had bad luck with Fords and am not excited about the prospect of paying a premium to beta test hybrid technology, but the Hybris Escape would be a pretty good "fit" for me. Lycos Environmental News CNBC Article Another Article Edmunds Article

[Brian Curtis]

Hey, that's cool, Dante. I've got 100K on my '94 Explorer and it's not showing any signs of giving up to ghost so I've been happy, overall, with my Ford. It has even survived being mauled by a bear. I paid nearly $30K for it new, but I had it going through an alder car wash within 5 days of taking it off the lot with no regrets about the paint job.

[polarbear]

That is impressive (depressive?) what that bear did to your explorer Brian. Never heard of a bear breaking a window and getting inside like that.

[Brian Curtis]

Yep, it did 5K in damage to the truck. Fortunately the insurance company didn't declare it an act of God. Les Schwab didn't consider that a normal road hazard, though. A friend of mine came upon a car at the Taylor River TH that had the exact same thing happen to it. In that case the car had been used as a pizza delivery vehicle and smell mighty good. The bear busted in a side window and trashed the thing. It normally happens in places where bears are habituated. The FS was very surprised when I stopped in and told them about this because we were at such a remote trailhead (30 miles from the nearest pavement, most on a road only maintained to 4x4 standards). The guys first comment was "Yeah, a teenage bear." But he ate his words when he saw the paw prints all over the truck.

[Lazyboy]

I bought a new CJ5 back in 78. I never owned any vehicle that needed more repair work than that. When I turned it into a Chevy things worked much better.

[Backpacker Joe]

1978 CJ-5 SSCCRREAAMMSS AMC! AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH! Run for your lives. The oposite direction too! Jeeps are generally speaking good vehicles now. My 93 cherokee has been perfect to its 120,000 miles except for one water pump. I would NOT TRUST any hybrid anything off road! Nor would I trust the complexity of those systems 40 miles in some logging road! I may just throw a cummins 3.9 litre diesel into my cherokee and get 30 mpg out of her some time. That or going 4runner and putting in a toyota 2.4 or 2.8 litre toy diesel into her.

[Dante]

What about this hybrid Tom? At least it's a TDI. Here's my favorite part: "The four electric motors provide truly independent four-wheel drive, allowing the Hummer, like a tank, to actually turn around in place by having one or more wheels turn in different directions." I'd still rather keep my VW and get an old 4x4 than replace the Golf with any SUV. My Golf has averaged 43 mpg over the past two years and 20,000 miles despite my ugly 520 commute and is fun to drive

[Dano]

I just traded in a 1993 Grand Cherokee for a 2002 CR-V. IMHO American made vehicles are expensive to own and operate requiring huge amounts of food and water during a feeding. Plus the fit and finish on American vehicles is poor compared to the Japanese. I've been hiking for 20+ years now. I have never been anywhere in that Jeep that I couldn't have gotten with my previous Honda Accord. Sad, but true. I'm not a four-wheeler. I just wanted a 4WD to ensure that I could get anywhere I reasonably wanted to go. That being said...my CR-V gets 22-30mpg, vs the 13-20mpg for the six-cylinder Jeep. The Jeep had 6.5" ground clearance, the CR-V has 9"...go figure! Plus the reliability and quality of the Honda is unsurpassed. My advice? Go with one of the smaller Japanese SUV's. Stay with the four-cylinder. I have MUCH better acceleration than I had with MUCH better mileage with MUCH better reliabiltiy and MUCH better quality. Good luck. Dano

[lopper]

I am a bicycle commuter. I save the gasoline for the mountains and weekends....and I need to because I drive a used 1-ton van. 11 years old, 120K miles. It carries 1-12 with their gear. It cost me about 1/5 of what I'd pay for something cute and new, and I'm buying years of gasoline with the $20K not spent on the purchase. I like the great road visibility and am less apt to be squashed by an SUV in traffic altercations. I can throw in 2000lbs of firewood if I feel like it. Ralph Nader hates me, but having gone through the 5 kids and scout troop regimen, this is the transpo-mode that works for me.

[Backpacker Joe]

I am a diesel convert! 2001 Jetta TDI (62.4mpg best) and a suzuki samurai with a toyota diesel motor (34mpg) soon most of your SUV's will offer diesels. Ford, Chevy, Jeep they all make them already for other markets. I like to have a rig that will go anywhere. One year I was heading to the boulder lake parking lot. Half way there I ran into a slide that covered the road for 300 yards. My cherokee winched over the debree field and crawled around the crap and made it to the trailhead. I was the only person there! That and my tyoe of rig is WAY better in the snow too.

[Scrooge]

The frequency of repair thing with the Jeeps bothers me. I don't like down time and I don't like repair bills. I bought my Mazda on the basis of reliability reports - in fact I bought two Mazdas, an 88 and an 89. We're still driving both of them and I couldn't be more satisfied. Best cars I've ever owned. My 89's approaching 200'000 miles and my maintenance costs have run about 1 1/2 cents a mile - including oil changes and tires! I've gotten 30+ MPG and my initial investment was less than Joe pays to get his rigs modified. I've been driving no-frills Japanese cars for 25 years and manual transmission for 35, so my ideas about value are pretty well established. My problem is trying to get a little improvemement in clearance and traction without sacrificing those values - and without paying a whole lot more money. Probably it isn't possible and probably I will wind up with another small, reliable Japanese car - and continuing to walk when the roads get too rough.

[polarbear]

Same here, Japanese car. There are plenty of places I haven't hiked that I can still drive to, including parking at the Chelan ferry dock and doing all the trails at the other end of the lake.

[Dante]

There's a lot to be said for the "no frills" thing. I wish I could have bought my VW Golf without power everything, but when I made the purchase VW only offered the 4-door in the fancy GLS trim. I'd trade down to a 2001 or 2002 4-door GL to get rid of potential power window and door-lock problems and get the additional head protection of side-curtain air bags, but at this point doing so would cost too much. I'm with Tom on the diesel thing--my best tank so far was over 51 mpg Too bad your diesel car choices are all VW--Beetle, Golf or Jetta Toyota sells some really nice diesels in other markets, and some analysts say diesels will soon account for over half of all new car sales in Europe. I'll get an older "no frills" 4Runner to take to the trailhead and dump one of these days.