[Scrooge]

This topic got started back in the "Roads to Trails in NW Washington book" thread, but that's a couple of pages back and isn't obviously connected to this subject, anyway. We'd generated a fair amount of bluesky ideas about exploring the area at the head of Williamson Creek, and we were talking about alternate ways to access the area, given that DNR has trenched 6 1/2 miles of the North Shore Road (in Sultan Basin). Ice Girl. Let's start with your idea of using the Bald Mountain Trail (one I've done parts of on eight different hikes). It's really a neat trail. It's also more than 15 miles and 4500' from the Ashland Lakes trailhead to the base of the Copper outlet. The eastern third was abandoned when Walt Bailey's Trail was completed, and DNR had planned to trench the 2 mile spur down to Williamson Creek. At the very best, it's a very tough dayhike just to get to the 45 Mine spur at the base of the Copper outlet. Michael loaned me some space for a map *** http://www.mcaver.com/tt/scrooge/Copper_Lake_via_BMT.jpg *** It's huge, 1.0MB. I've included it more because I want to talk about problems with TOPO Washington then for its utility, here, but I'll come back to it later. Big and cumbersome as it is, it only covers enough territory to show one of the other proposed access routes in its entirety. That's the route in from Walt Bailey's Trail. Sawyer. That one was actually my idea, originally. The main thing wrong with it is 1 1/2 miles of tough bushwhacking, mostly dense second-growth fir; plus a line a of cliffs that could be as difficult to descend as the ones you ran into above Blanca. Aside from that, it's about 7 miles and 1500' in, 2500' out - not exactly the basis for a dayhike. Your own idea, coming in over Marble Pass, has the advantage of being the shortest route, 4 crowfly miles (and about 3000'). What's wrong with it is that I've read the write-ups you and Karen did on probing that route. The bushwhacking sounds extremely nasty - and it's mostly bushwhacking. - By the way, does the route actually go up Marble Gulch, or up one of the adjacent ridges? Somebody suggested an approach via Headlee Pass, Vesper Peak and the Vesper Glacier. That's just mountaineering Disneyland; a map-hikers daydream. ;/ The most obvious approach is to come in the original route, along the North Shore Road to Williamson Creek, in spite of the trenching. That's 6 1/2 miles of trenches, but I did 2/3 of it one hot, August afternoon, so it is possible. It's just very unpleasant. And then there's still 4 1/2 miles up what's left of the Williamson Creek Road to get to the base of the Copper outlet. It does make a possible weekend hike, but drivers would be needed to remove cars from the "trailhead" (because of the restrictions on overnight camping in most of Sultan Basin). Then there's my idea. ) Take boats across Spada Reservoir, 1 mile, to the mouth of Williamson Creek. Then 4 1/2 miles and 800' up the Williamson Creek Road. The road is washed out in places and flooded by beaver dams in places and may be trenched - but most of the other alternatives include doing the worst parts of it, anyway! It actually would be possible to do it as a long dayhike, although probably more fun as a weekend. If staying overnight, it might be possible to leave cars at the Greider Lakes trailhead, about 1 1/2 miles from the boat-launch (the extra driver thing would be safer). Anyway, doing it with boats and a roadwalk could turn it into an ambitious social, with Copper Lake and the 45 Mine available for exploration, in addition to the attraction of just potting around in some very pretty country. ..... ps - I'll come back to the map in a different thread. This post's too long, already. YES! Copper Lake via Bald Mountain Trail

[Sawyer]

Hey Scrooge, can we post files here? I'd like to get your .tpo file. If not would you email it? I'd like to research this problem area some more.

[Ice Girl]

Well, well, i have to agree with everything in the last post, either rd. walking, or bushwacking, or over mt., choose your posion. Someone should go on a rd. trip and check out the snow up there first and also find out whether the rd. is open past Spada Lake or not. I know that it was closed for a while after the 11 Sept. problems, because of the dam. Of course someone might just call PUD and find out. (rd. trip sounds better to me). I know last time i called they said they were opening it for fishing season. (but, i didn't find out how long for or when, was on my cell phone on my way into the basin for a hike. Some places i have read that the Walt ?? trail is not to bad, but i am not sure if you can believe that. I also know last time i was in there the rd. up Williamson Creek was bad, and is probably overgrown very much so... bushwacking might be a problem there. I say we check out the basin, and see how far we can get up there first and then try to figure out how we want to do it. Ice Girl

[Scrooge]

Sawyer. It's about four times too big to post here, which is why I borrowed Michael's website. I also didn't do it in .tpo, but I think I can convert it without too much trouble. Do you want me to include a broader area while I'm doing it? It occurs to me that there's one more route I need to check: that's Walt Bailey's all the way to the Bald Mountain Trail. That's probably easier than the bushwhack from the meadow east to Williamson Creek, even though it's 3 or 4 miles further. I still like my boat idea, though. Anybody know anyplace that rents kayaks? Maybe that used sporting equipment place in Startup(?) ? Ice Girl. I know it's too early. Probably late June. But you're our area expert - so you're in charge.

[Ice Girl]

Ok, i'll be in charge of finding all about the k, for a lake crossing. i have a book on the Walt Bailey Trail: Round trip is 8 miles. High gain is about 1800 ft. Says July to November is a good time. Has Greens Trails No., not like they are up to date on there maps. (as if anyone is). Says at 4 miles you hit the first Cutthroat Lake at 4200' Bald Mt. Trip says: One way 11 miles. gain from Stillaquamish is 2500', from Sultan 2100' (but i do believe that is from the top of the switch backs on the east side of Bald Mt. Same Greens map as the Walts trail. This trail does start at Ashland lakes on Pilchuck. If you had a fax # i could try to copy the pages and fax them to you, or if you have the book. 100 Hikes in Washington, page 90 and 92.

[Scrooge]

Thanks, Ice Girl. I've got the books and maps. For these trails, I could probably REwrite the books. And if you'll take the time to download this map - Copper Lake via Bald Mountain Trail - down at the bottom you'll see where I got my distance and elevation figures. Usually the distance figures are a little understated. Go for it on the kayaks. I also expect you to know where to camp up at the head of Williamson Creek.

[Sawyer]

Scrooge, thanks for the offer but I can make a .tpo file if you don't have one. It sure looks like Topo! though! When you say Topo! do you have to shout? I guess that would be TOPO!. Anyway that Marble Pass route doesn't have that much brush if you can ford the chilly Stilly. Cuts out 95% of it. Except up high. But I fear dropping from Marble Pass on the old miners trail to the 45 mine would be a massive brush bash. Must be tried some day though.

[Sawyer]

Scrooge, I took another look and you did use Topo!. Upload the .tpo file! If you saved it, it's on there, and it should be really small -- just a few k. Then I have your route. I'm gonna post the Marble Pass trail route from my notes soon... (both .tpo and .jpg).

[Sore Feet]

I'll just throw an idea or two out here... 1 - If BPJ is interested (or could be convinced), would his 36" tires get us past the ditched parts of the North Shore Rd to a point where walking Williamson would be easy to do in a day? 2 - Mountain bikes. If the "road" is anything like the Taylor River trail, I've biked that to Big Creek. It's not breezy, but it's not difficult either (aside from that one creek / slide you have to shoulder across). 3 - I've never been up to Spada, so I'm just throwing this into the open, whether or not it's possible. Take the S. Shore Road to a point where it crosses the River, then bushwhack downstream along the river to Williamson Cr. Rd. This would obviously work best if the river has nice wide rocky banks.

[Sawyer]

Attaching a .tpo file -- has some other stuff on it but see if this helps, Scrooge. The green part is not a trail. The red part is a guess to the trail route. AbandonedTrails.tpo (18 KB)

[lopper]

The approach via Sunrise Mine Rd/Headlee Pass would seem to me to be far easier and faster than anything from the South or West. I remember Vesper as being easy cruising from that side. I've been up via the BrenMac Road too, but it was a horrible drive even in 1973. The road is toast now for sure. Dropping down alongside the Vesper Glacier might be rather gripping, but nothing compared to the miles of man-eating vegetation or state-provided obstructions of the other routes. "When in doubt, take the high route."

[Ice Girl]

Ok, i found another map, Darrington Ranger District (forest Service map). It shows the Walter Baily route going along Mallary Ridge and meeting up with the trail along Bald Mt., But it shows no trail going across the top of the mt. and down to the rd. Scrooge, you should look at this map, it doesn't look that far from the rd. on Mallary Ridge over the top to the other rd. on Bald Mt. It might be the best way if we have to bushwack any, looks to be mostly all down hill or same level 3200' to 3600'. Do you have one of those? The best place to camp depends on what you plan to do. If you plan on packing light and making it in and out of Copper lake in one day. Or if you want to backpack in and camp along the way. If i remember right it's i climb up to the lake from the base of the creek. i am not sure what time we left in the morning but it was getting dark by the time we came out that night. That was with a good trail up the valley from the base of Little Chief and then somewhat of a trail up to Copper Lake. My idea is to leave Friday afternoon, either do the lake shuttle or maybe the stomp across end of Mallary Ridge, (this one would have to be hiked as a check out first to see if you could actually do it, before). Maybe hike, down the old rd. up Williamson Creek as far as you could get. Then camp, i knew of a couple places, (which may or may not be there), but i know we can find places. Then Saturday, hike up to Copper Lake and back out to our overnight camp, and hike out on Sunday. How does that sound? If we had extra time we could scope out some of the mines on the hill side of B4. P.S. i don't know when the map i have was made. It does show the rd. on the N. side of Spada, But doesn't show the lake being raised, which i know was raised up past the entrance to Williamson Creek, if i remember it wasn't much past where WC comes out. Another mission.... Ice Girl P.S. i am not sure about the Vesper drop how high of a climb, and i have heard that Headlee pass is a scramble?? Haven't been there... Most of what i have read on Headlee pass is it's not a picnic. I have been up the rd. to BrenMac, that rd. wasn't even every good way back when, so it might be in even worse shape then the others. Scrooge, you did areally good job on the map, and i did look at it when i first started reading this and still have it up on my tool bar. One other problem we might have if we choose to boat across is that the lake at the time of the year when we choose to go might be high, leaving us no bank to walk on. Just a thought.

[McPilchuck]

This sounds all very interesting? I can honestly say I have never been to Copper Lake or up Williamson Creek, but just about every other place on Bald Mtn. and Pilchuck, including atop those obscur peaks/mountains 4,414' & 4,126' above Boardman Lake along that pothole above it from a route up from East Boardman Lake, and then again across Bald Mtn. up Mam's Chimney & Driscole's Chute down into East Boardman coming from Island Lake many times long before any trail was ever built on Bald Mtn., to include all the Cutthroat Lakes as well as the rest on Bald Mtn. surveying lakes as a Trail Blazer. Years later I took the trail across from the Spada Lake road and viseversa along Bald Mtn. as well as occasionally going up the now Walt Bailey Trail. In any era it's a great place to hike or bushwack depending upon what your interests are. I consider myself very lucky to have explored it all before most of the many trails came...an innocence of the land was lost when the Bald Mtn. Trail was constructed in my opinion.

[McPilchuck]

Though I did alot of hiking up here in the 60s, here are a few early trek reports of the early 1970s of that area for a read. I cut my teeth so to speak on Bald Mtn. and the mountain, Pilchuck. But we were young and foolish with a zest for adventure and often went with no tent, canned food, little climbing gear, ect. Come to think about it, I once crossed the Three Fingers Mtn. Glacier with only a fish rod case as an ice axe or trek pole depending upon how you used it I guess, luckily I am here to say how foolish that was but I made the peak and back in that day. Remembering further, that damn aluminum fish rod case made it atop several mountains & peaks, I should have left it on one...grin. http://www.alpinequest.com/trekto.htm http://www.alpinequest.com/across.htm

[Ice Girl]

i was looking in my pic, (last mothers day) the kids and i went to Spada Lake for a picnic. i took pic up Williamson Creek, i found on you can still see the old rd. on Bald Mt. coming around, on the end it looks like trees have grown up some, where it was once clear cut. There is another clear cut on the side of the lake facing s. that's about all you can see. i can't see the begining of WC. it's not much but a little info. Ice Girl