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treewalker
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PostMon Jul 28, 2003 10:26 am 
so Miss Normandy, seeing that you are an attractive woman of the type I'd probably like to consider would be amenable to dating moi, what is your opinion on men who have had vasectomies? I am considering getting one. Would it affect your choice of whether or not to date someone, given that you have said that you aren't interested in children for many years to come??? In regards to children, probably my desire to get snipped might tell you that I don't ever want any of my own. Why? I blame my family. They sucked and I never want to do to a child what was done to me. Since I never learned to be a good parent I can avoid this by just not breeding. I won't repeat the mistake my parents made. and their parents too. It really makes me hate my family more when I realize what they've taken away from me. Especially when I see a child beating his Dad down a black diamond tree run at Stevens or something... I'll never experience that bliss.

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Backpacker Joe
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PostMon Jul 28, 2003 10:30 am 
I love kats too! If I didnt travel, I'd have three of them! TB

"If destruction be our lot we must ourselves be its author and finisher. As a nation of freemen we must live through all time or die by suicide." — Abraham Lincoln
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Dante
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PostMon Jul 28, 2003 10:31 am 
MCaver wrote:
selfish \Self"ish\, a. 1. Caring supremely or unduly for one's self; regarding one's own comfort, advantage, etc., in disregard, or at the expense, of those of others.
MCaver wrote:
Just because you get something out of an act doesn't make it selfish, unless it is to the detriment of someone or something else. Egocentric, maybe. But not selfish. To be selfish, someone or something else would have to be deprived as a result of my gain.
Under the definition you posted above, you only need to do something in disregard of the comfort, advantage, etc. of others for it to be selfish. You don;t have to hurt others' interests--just disregard them.

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MtnGoat
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PostMon Jul 28, 2003 10:35 am 
Interesting question TW. In my early years I considered that option myself, but decided that maybe, just maybe, I wouldn't be as certain about what I wanted ten years later as I was at 22. Now I find I'm changing my mind, and my change in attitude about kids startles me but is strangely attractive and pleasing to me at the same time. My stepdaughter is the reason, having her around and about is worth all the trouble kids bring, and now I find myself thinking about another kid, something I was almost sure I'd never consider. Now I'm really glad I didn't get the snip. Bit don't forget you haven't really cheated yourself unless you don't take advantage of adoption or a shot at V reversal. You obviously know what not to do to a kid and have enough self awareness and maturity to know what was done to you was wrong. Some kid who may not be yours by blood can love you just as much and still kick your ass on a black diamond run and take *you* camping when you're old!

Diplomacy is the art of saying 'Nice doggie' until you can find a rock. - Will Rogers
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kiliki
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PostMon Jul 28, 2003 10:53 am 
Interesting topic. It's nice to hear that there are so many others who don't want or are not sure if you want kids, since I (at 34) am still told "oh, you're a woman, you'll change your mind" when I say that I don't want children. I have never had the biological urge to have kids and my ob/gyn recently told me that if I haven't felt it by now I am not likely to. She did say that sometimes falling in love can change your feelings about this, and I can sort of understand the desire to have one child with someone you think is the most amazing person in the world. Still, for me, the drawbacks seem to greatly outweigh any positives.

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Dante
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PostMon Jul 28, 2003 11:32 am 
We had kids because we wanted to and were in a good position financially, socially, etc. to do so responsibly. Why did we want to? I think we both had really good family experiences growing up and wanted to try to reproduce that. At bottom, we're very conventional (boring) straight white yuppies (well, not so young anymore)--that's what we do wink.gif

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#19
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PostMon Jul 28, 2003 4:38 pm 
screw the ego trip, we had kids for the tax break and to work as indentured servants.

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Dante
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PostMon Jul 28, 2003 4:40 pm 
Pappy wrote:
screw the ego trip, we had kids for the tax break and to work as indentured servants.
Well, there's that, too.

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Miss Normandy
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PostMon Jul 28, 2003 11:19 pm 
treewalker wrote:
so Miss Normandy, seeing that you are an attractive woman of the type I'd probably like to consider would be amenable to dating moi, what is your opinion on men who have had vasectomies? I am considering getting one. Would it affect your choice of whether or not to date someone, given that you have said that you aren't interested in children for many years to come??? In regards to children, probably my desire to get snipped might tell you that I don't ever want any of my own. Why? I blame my family. They sucked and I never want to do to a child what was done to me. Since I never learned to be a good parent I can avoid this by just not breeding. I won't repeat the mistake my parents made. and their parents too. It really makes me hate my family more when I realize what they've taken away from me. Especially when I see a child beating his Dad down a black diamond tree run at Stevens or something... I'll never experience that bliss.
I want my own family someday and I want all my kids to come from the same father and I want that father to be my husband. So no, I would probably not date you because I feel like it is a waste of time and energy to date a person you don't intend to marry. Also, I would probably never date a guy who had such an aweful attitude about his family because I would never want to marry into a family that "sucked" and is hated by my husband. However, if the incredible guy with a wonderful family I am dating and want to marry is the victim of some freak accident rendering him sterile I would still love him and date him and marry him and we would probably just adopt children together or ask his brother or close relative from his super lovable family to donate sperm.

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Hiker Boy
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PostMon Jul 28, 2003 11:35 pm 
I didn't have kids for the first eight years of my marriage because my wife and I were selfish/egocentric (jobs and fun first), too immature, didn't feel the need to produce offspring, and didn't have the money. Since then we have had two beautiful kids and then I got snipped....why have kids? We matured, we have prospered, we felt the need. What has having kids done for me?...it's matured me, it's made me a more caring person, and it's shown me how self centered I was before....oh yah, it's made me a heck of alot poorer! lol

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treewalker
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PostTue Jul 29, 2003 9:38 am 
wow so I guess you would discriminate against a guy because his family sucked... that sucks! Is this a common reason for discrimination??? If so I guess I am just screwed and will never find a girl with a good family that I can join. Oh well... It's not like my family sucking would even really effect us, they are 3000 miles away and I have little contact with them. Is it really a waste of time to date someone you don't plan on having marriage/kids with? What about those people who don't want marriage/kids, are they just wasting time?? Or are they just losers?

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Miss Normandy
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PostTue Jul 29, 2003 10:56 am 
No treewalker, I would discriminate against his family because his family sucked, and then against the guy for hating his family. A person like that could never be compatible with me to get past a first date. Family is way too important too me. People who harbor resentment like that against their family would also harbor resentment against a lot of other people for a lot of other things and that is a personality trait I do not find attractive. When you marry a person you are really marrying their family. If their family hates you, and your relationship, you are doomed for divorce.

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treewalker
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PostTue Jul 29, 2003 10:58 am 
ok so what about these alternate scenerios: 1. his family sucks but he still loves them, from a distance 2. his family sucks but he has nothing to do with them and doesn't love/hate them 3. his family sucks but he loves them and spends lots of time with them, even though they yell and scream and create drama and invade his life. Which one of those guys would make it past the first date with you?

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Miss Normandy
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PostTue Jul 29, 2003 11:13 am 
One more thing. Your family could be your closest friends, they don't have to be your parents & siblings. Family are the people you surround yourself with in times of need, in times of joy, holidays and vacations. Aside from family, the "red flag" in your message that warned me to never date you was this: "I blame my family. They sucked and I never want to do to a child what was done to me. Since I never learned to be a good parent I can avoid this by just not breeding. I won't repeat the mistake my parents made. and their parents too" You are an adult. You are independant. You are responsibe for yourself. The person you are is the person you allow yourself to be. No one can change you or make you into anything unless you permit them. If you want to marry into a good family, you gotta stop blaming them and resenting them and feeling sorry for yourself and making excuses. If you WANTED to be a good parent you could. You know all about being a bad parent, don't you? You know everything about what not to do. If you wanted to have a good attitude and say "Well, I didn't luck out with the greatest of parents, they did the best they knew how and it sucked, but they made me who I am today and I like that person and I'm proud of that person. I'm going to break the pattern and show them what being a good parent is really about" I would probably give you a few years of dating to see how you worked out.

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jenjen
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PostTue Jul 29, 2003 11:15 am 
Dating is always discriminatory. Why in the world would you date someone with whom you have very little in common? Children and family in general are extremely important to me, so I deliberately dated men that had the same priorities. I enjoy hiking, backpacking, and climbing so I deliberately dated men who had the same interests. Don't get me wrong, I dated all sorts of guys, but the ones who stuck around the longest had the same basic priorities as I do. I kinda think thats essential for any kind of happy home life. Occasional disagreements and debates are fine, but not on the very things you hold dearest.

If life gives you melons - you might be dyslexic
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