[Allison]

Um, WTA is doing great advocacy work for us as it is.

[MCaver]

[Allison]

We are linked from the WTA site. Yes, in my case, I probably could write off all of my expenses and gear as related to hiking, BUT I volunteer probably 20 hours a month to the organization. I will say that I don't agree with every single policy of the organization, but the vast majority of it is exactly what I want as a hiker.

[treewalker]

I'll donate... I can also write code.

[Allison]

Do it! They need money, and they probably could use some help with that too. Get in touch with Lace Thornberg at 625-1367 to see if they need any code stuff done or whatever. If you know Access I think their bookkeeper, Quark, is looking for some tootelage.

[polarbear-]

[Daddy]

We should make two groups: NWhikers.that.have.kids.and.don't.pay.taxes.ORG, and NWhikers.who.have.time.to.hike.ORG. That way we can deduct our kids, our hiking expences, and have two more websites to monitor on an hourly basis.

[Dante]

How would www.nwhikers.org make hiking tax deductible? Besides any dues or contributions, what hiking expenses would I be able to deduct?

[Dante]

OK, so we're talking about charitable deductions (for costs associated with volunteering time or services to a charitable 501(c)(3) organization), right? If so, we'd have to create a 501(c)(3) organization and file annual returns (IRS Form 990-EZ) with the IRS. Then those of us who can itemize could deduct charitable contributions to the organization (e.g. a "gear library"?) and costs associated with volunteering time or services.

[Dante]

Well it might definitely do Tom some good. I imagine there are some significant hardware and ISP costs related to the board he could deduct if we were a 501(c)(3). I'd participate (donate) for that reason alone. I've never given Tom anything yet, but I give $100 a year to the guy who runs www.tdiclub.com because the entertainment and information I get there is worth at least that to me. That said, I don't currently volunteer, so I'm not sure what if anything I could deduct... Hmmm...I wonder if "documenting the current condition of lakes and peaks of the Pacific Northwest" would be a valid charitable purpose for a 501(c)(3) organization? Then we could volunteer to hike, write trip reports and post photos for the organization... Here's a link to some IRS info on the topic: LINK "The exempt purposes set forth in IRC Section 501(c)(3) are charitable, religious, educational, scientific, literary, testing for public safety, fostering national or international amateur sports competition, and the prevention of cruelty to children or animals. The "documenting the current condition of lakes and peaks of the Pacific Northwest" idea would arguably be educational and scientific. We might also throw in "competitive peak bagging" to cover all our bases

[Dante]

I think it is a great idea, if for no other reason than to support Tom and the board (although we could do that without creating a any kind of organization). Tom, does this interest you at all? Ultimately it's your call IMO. If so, I bet we can find a volunteer to do the paperwork. I've never set up a 501(c)(3) before, but I've prepared a few 990s and would volunteer to do that as long as I am an active member. Members could make their own decisions about any deductions based on their own circumstances and their own conclusions about the Internal Revenue Code and Regulations and IRS Publications, Forms and Instructions regarding charitable deductions. EDIT: Maybe my enthusiasm here was misplaced. To deduct expenses related to volunteer work, www.nwhikers.org would have to have a real exempt purpose (see below) and you would have to really volunteer to fulfil that exempt purpose. Moreover, the cost of creating amd maintaining a 501(c)(3) organization might be greater than the tax effect of any deductions Tom could take...

[Dante]

I think we would also have to form a separate legal entity (right now there is none AFAIK--just Tom): "...the organization must be a corporation, community chest, fund, or foundation. A charitable trust is a fund or foundation and will qualify. However, an individual or a partnership will not qualify. The articles of organization must limit the organization's purposes to one or more of the exempt purposes set forth in IRC Section 501(c)(3) and must not expressly empower it to engage, other than as an insubstantial part of its activities, in activities that are not in furtherance of one or more of those purposes. This requirement may be met if the purposes stated in the articles of organization are limited in some way by reference to IRC Section 501(c)(3)." That creates more organizational hastles and expenses... So far no one else seems interested.

[Tom]

As cheap as I am, the one thing I haven't done is liberally interpret the tax code. Why? Because the meager savings just isn't worth going to prison. At most I could see people being able to deduct donations if we ever needed them, but we haven't as of yet. Deducting the cost of trail park passes, food, gas, etc. just doesn't smell right, or am I missing something?

[Dante]

Well, Tom, you'd have to talk to your own tax professional. I understand your concern, but I think whatever you spend (hardware, software, ISP fees, etc.) would be fair game so long as we had a legitimate 501(c)(3) with a legitimate educational or scientific purpose. IMO whether that is possible or not would require some research. I think the question of www.nwhikers.org's status as a real (versus sham) 501(c)(3) would always be a "facts and circumstances" kind of question--the IRS could always question our 501(c)(3) status. In any case, given the costs of setting up a separate entity as a 501(c)(3) and keeping it in compliance with all the applicable laws and regulations, I don't know if it would be worth it. Assuming it was, I would leave other people's deductions to them and their tax preparers. If they were actually doing volunteer work in furtherance of a legitimate 501(c)(3)'s legitimate educational or scientific purpose, then IMO legitimate expenses related to their volunteer work would not cross the line. For example, if cataloging lakes is really a legitimate educational or scientific purpose of www.nwhikers.org, and if I was actually volunteering to do so for www.nwhikers.org, and and if www.nwhilers.org is a legitimate 501(c)(3), then I don't think deducting gas to get to the trailhead and other expenses that are really related to volunteering would cross the line. Likewise, If WTA is a 501(c)(3) and I volunteer to do trail maintainence for a day, I don't think deducting the gas to get to the trail crosses the line. Am I going to deduct a new pack or pair of boots I bought that day? No way. DISCLAIMER: The foregoing is intended for conversational purposes only. The author has not been paid for and does not intend it as professional advice...

[Tom]

Let's ignore any time and expense Michael and I donate to this website. I just don't understand how going on a hike would support an "organization" and thus qualify as a tax deductible expense? Let's assume I'm the IRS auditing you. Explain to me why I should let you deduct your trail park pass, food, gas, etc. for any of your hikes (assume trail maintenance falls under the WTA if you do that sort of thing).