Forum Index > Trail Talk > The filter/treat water topic! - article on giardia prompts post
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Stefan
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PostTue Mar 19, 2002 1:02 pm 
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Anybody know of any "off the counter" test they can do to see if they already have it?

My guess is this:  Those people that filter their water actually have giardia and they are masking it in their intestines.

Those that don't drink filtered water - don't have it.

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Allison
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PostTue Mar 19, 2002 3:34 pm 
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Aqua Mira might be fine but I haven't seen any proof that it works. I would need to see that first.

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Timber Cruiser
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PostTue Mar 19, 2002 4:27 pm 
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I've either commented on this same thread some time ago or the hallucinations are returning.  I hiked and worked in the Cascades and Olympics since the early 60's.  Never gave water a thought.  Someone on our large group hikes would usually get sick, but we attributed that to problems with diet.  In the 80's while working in the Sierra's I made the fateful decision to drink out of a small glacial pond instead of suffering heat exhaustion.  Within a day or two I was hallucinating and turning inside out for the next week.  As some of you say you are waiting to experience it before you treat water, that was the cure for me, and I don't recommend it.

I spent most of January this year in China and Vietnam.  The natives there have built up a tolerance to such critters in their water.  The travel doctor I saw before the trip said the people who get the sickest traveling there are former inhabitants who come back for a visit and have lost that immunity.  Maybe it works the same way for some of you old-timers in the Cascades.  I wouldn't bet that theory holds water though.

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Tom
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PostTue Mar 19, 2002 5:00 pm 
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I think folks are kidding themselves if they think they've built up any sort of resistance during their hiking lifetimes.  We're talking 100's if not 1000's of years for natives to build up these tolerances, and nano-second for a new bug to wipe 'em out.

As far as aquamira - I've seen enough to convince me it's worth the 3 oz.
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Mike Collins
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PostTue Mar 19, 2002 6:06 pm 
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Stefan, it looks like I may be your only stream water drinking buddy.
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Allison
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PostTue Mar 19, 2002 6:07 pm 
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Tom, where have you seem reasonable proof that Aquamira kills G and C? Tell me, I want to read it too! ...and the stuff on the packaging doesn't count! wink.gif

I agree about people getting used to their water. I went to Portugal a few years back and was loosey the whole time I was there (I assume it was the water) and as soon as I got back home everything was fine again...

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polarbear
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PostTue Mar 19, 2002 7:34 pm 
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Seven days bowing to the porcelain god do not sound like fun.  One night of it isn't even fun.  I'm thinking about buying a filter.  What is crypto?

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Mike Collins
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PostTue Mar 19, 2002 9:36 pm 
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Polarbear, Crytosporidium and Giardia are both protozoans with more complex reproduction cycles than bacteria. Cryptosporidia utilize oocysts and Giardia use cysts. The problem with using compounds such as iodine or chlorine is that the cysts are relatively inactive until they are introduced into a favorable environment like the gut. Iodine and chlorine operate by binding with enzymes and stopping respiration in an organism. But with inert oocysts and cysts you are much safer using a filter. Goats, deer, cattle, dogs, cats, and many other animals harbor cryptosporidium in their intestines and release untold numbers into the environment.
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Rich Baldwin
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PostFri Mar 22, 2002 8:37 pm 
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I allways filter.

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jad
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PostTue Mar 26, 2002 7:43 am 
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I use the Extream purifier bottle.  No big deal.  Unscrew cap/cartridge, fill bottle, screw on cap and drink nice, cold, purified water.  Why even think about tempting fate?  I have better things to do than to be laid up with the trots, or worse.

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Dante
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PostTue Mar 26, 2002 8:25 am 
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I searched the EPA site for "Chlorine Dioxide" (the active ingredient in AquaMira and it's Canadian cousin Pristine ) and then searched within the results for "Giardia" and "Crytosporidium."  Plenty of information there.  Unfortunately, the .pdf files were taking too long to download.  You can find plenty on the web that says chlorine dioxide kills giardia and crypto.  The question is whether AquaMira and Pristing produce a form and concentration of chlorine dioxide that kills them reliably.

I've got some AquaMira, but I haven't used it yet.  I carry a PUR Hiker with the outlet hose removed to save a little weight.  I just plug my Platypus hose onto the outlet nipple and fill 'er up.
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Mike Collins
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PostTue Mar 26, 2002 9:29 am 
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A study was done by the Department of Environmental Health at University of Washington which was reported in the American Journal of Public Health. 79 (12):1633-7, 1989 under the title, "Back-country Water Treatment to Prevent Giardiasis." The concluding abstract states, "Amoung the seven disinfection treatments, the iodine-based chemicals were all significantly more effective than the chlorine-based chemicals. None of the chemical treatments achieved 99.9% cyst inactivation with only 30-minute contact. After an 8 hour contact each of the iodine but none of the chlorine preparations achieved at least 99.9% cyst inactivation. Heating water to at least 70 degrees C for 10 minutes was an acceptable alternative treatment."
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Tom
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PostTue Mar 26, 2002 9:50 am 
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Mike, I believe this is the study you are referring to:
http://www.pcta.org/plan/water_treat.shtml

I don't believe they tested chlorine dioxide (i.e. aquamira / pristine).  Chlorine and chlorine dioxide are NOT the same:
http://www.clo2.com/qa/qa.html
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Mike Collins
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PostTue Mar 26, 2002 10:55 am 
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Tom,

They did not test chlorine dioxide. My limited understanding is that the chlorine ion is the active ingredient with both products. I will do a Medline search for chlorine dioxide and see what pops up in the medical literature. The electronegativity of iodine and chlorine are physical constants though.  Whatever you are using as the vehicle for the ion to get to the organism (i.e. the preparation of tablet or liquid) does not change the attraction of the ion to proteins which is where the "killing" occurs.
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PostTue Mar 26, 2002 1:09 pm 
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The active ingredient in chlorine dioxide is the oxidizing property of the substance (ClO2) not the chlorine ion. in bleach it is the hypochlorite ion OCl-. Chlorine and iodine are also oxidizing agents and have their disenfectant property because of it. Each has different strengths and weaknesses. The chlorine dioxide is stabalized in commercial soluitions. Each of these is toxic in large amounts. Chlorine dioxide was used to get rid of anthrax spores in the congress but it took many appplications in doses that would also kill people to be effective. I was a chem major. dizzy.gif
I used no filter then iodine for many years without getting sick.
It could just be like the person who I met in Hong Kong who was buying Tiger Balm,
I asked what thats for and he said, "Keeps Tigers Away",
I said B.S., and he said "You don't see any Tigers do you?"
I now use a filter with kids, we have not gotten sick but then we are pretty picky about what we filter. If in doubt boil.but it tastes lousy :angry:
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