[Backpacker Joe]

I think the fishing aspect of what you are talking about is a definite. As far as hiking goes. I think that unlike when Dante and I were kids, and how we got into the outdoors so early. Today because of computer/internet/video games, and how it keeps kids inside the house, and the general fear by parents of letting their kids away from the nest because of all the violence. The hiking craze seems to come into play today as people become adults instead like when we were kids. TB

[#19]

I'll add to the thread drift....... The can draft me, but I won't serve. We pay taxes. It's not our fault such a tiny portion of the federal budget is allocated for the enhancement of outdoor recreation. Seems like there are many things to factor in when trying to determine if more or less people are hiking. It's safe to say this areas population has grown in past 20 yrs? There may be more people hiking, but less a percent of the population. My personal guess is that about the same percent of the population in western Washington hikes as did 25 years ago.

[Tom]

Secrecy? What secrecy ? Actually, I really enjoyed doing the topographic research for a change. It was much more rewarding than opening a book or clicking on a web page. Not to mention after pouring over the maps and investigating multiple routes I feel I'll be that much more prepared should something go wrong. And after all that, I find the wheel has already been invented by explorers Pilar & Collins.

[Scrooge]

If you're going to stay home just because someone else has been there first, you'll stay home a lot. The day you and I met on Rampart Ridge, nothing was taken away because part of the time we were following a trail made by someone else. When you scrambled to the top of that spur to take that unique picture showing both the Rampart and Rachel Lakes, you were "exploring" just as surely as the first person who visited the ridge. When I bushwhacked around the east end of the spur that morning, I was "exploring", though I'd been over the spur before, and had discussed possible alternate route with 2DrX. Pouring over the maps to find places to go is one of our great winter pleasures, at least it's one of mine. I found Lake Philippa that way, when I was young (about 55) and inexperienced. (The ubiquitous Backpacker Joe "found" it long before I did.) I had daydreams about the waterfall I was going to "discover", and about undertaking my own trail-building project (remember, "inexperienced") to open up the area. - But I wasn't put out a bit to discover that fishermen had been there before me, creating a fine trail for me to "discover" and use. Just this week I corresponded with Mike Collins (yeah, the same guy who got to Boner first) about the alternate route he'd used to get to Philippa, because it's one I'd looked at on the map, and on the ground, but decided against. The current round of Troublesome Creek explorations started with our pouring over maps (separately), and we are certainly "exploring" - even though we are tracing routes on highly detailed maps to plan our trips. Beyond question, someone has been there first: up Randy and Craig's East Fork route to Blanca Lake; and on my Middle Fork route up and over the ridge to Blanca; and on Lopper's West Fork route to Twin Lakes; probably even on Rubberleg's traverse from Twin to Blanca; if not modern hikers then oldtime surveyors or oldertime miners. It's still "exploring" and it's still "ours" - and it's surely as much fun and excitement as this old man needs in his life. So don't let the fact that someone else has been there first detract from your own satisfaction at "finding" a neat place to go on a map - and then going there. Don't let the fact that someone else knows you're going reduce your sense of adventure. The "discoveries" are perfectly valid for each of us - no matter how many fish the Trailblazers have planted. And it's all more fun because we can share it here.

[Oldtimer]

Rather nicely put, Scrooge. The enjoyment starts with doing research--routes, difficulty, time, etc. It becomes a pleasure when you reach your objective. I bought the various 100 hikes books in the 1960's so I could avoid the destinations covered in them. "Earning" your way to a lake results in much more satisfaction than having a route in a book that you can copy. Took me 7 tries before I made it to a particular lake. As a consequence, it is the highlight of my many trips to different mountain lakes. Those planning to go to Boner will "earn" their way there, unless they go with someone who knows the route. I do not recommend going straight up from Money Creek. You'll spend a lot of time in cliffs, but it is doable. You'll miss the plane, too.

[Allison]

Actually, I don't even fish. I just haven't decided if I want to publish my tick list for the year. Several of mine are off-trail, and some of them are with the fishermen, and I should respect their silence. I am planning to get to Twin Lakes from Blanca, and I'm going to do Ingalls Lake and Peak. So there.

[polarbear]

I'm not sure I've ever hiked to a place that someone hasn't been to before, though I suspect there are some on this board who have. Even the few times I thought I was Lewis and Clarking it, some confounding evidence would show up to prove otherwise There are alot of cool places to explore. Take a place like Lake Margaret, or from the other side, Lake Edna. The scenery along the trail just keeps getting better and better the farther you go. The fun is in looking at the map, or even the guide book and wondering what a place is like, and then finding out for yourself. Hopefully on the day you do it, it's not pouring rain, or the sun is not obscurred by a cloud of black mosquitos...

[Randy]

In the name of keeping a "first" indeed a "first" you (AW) are sworn to secrecy on a few of the trips you've heard me blab about in recent months. They may or may not actually be firsts, but I've never heard anything about anyone ever attempting such trips, so they're still first-type trips to me and that makes all the difference. So much more fun to be stomping around a place if it gets visited once every 7 years rather than once every 7 days.

[Scrooge]

Know what, Randy? I think you worry too much. ... Sound familiar? http://www.wta.org/~wta....+trails You and Phil both wrote up the Foss Follies, but I seriously doubt that anyone has attempted to duplicate that traverse, inspite of your write-ups (or maybe because of them). I suspect that your current round of secret hikes is more of the same thing, only more so. Your reports certainly used to be a treat for me, though except for Delta Lake (the easiest of them) I was never inspired to follow you. You must still have some interest in sharing your exploits or you wouldn't "blab" about them over beer. Where will you find an audience better able to appreciate your exploits, or likely to take more pleasure from your reports, then among the people who frequent this website?

[polarbear]

Yah, plus Randy is the only one who has the maps that show where the bees nests are. We would never be able to step on the same ones so it just wouldn't be the same Actually, though, there is a difference between discussing favorite places at a pub, and posting them on the internet. Speaking of pubs, anyone that saw Brian's slide show last week also saw that my choice of brews at the last social was solidly vindicated.

[polarbear]

I can't remember exactly how it happened, but I asked the lady taking orders for an MGD. The minute I finished speaking a you-could-have-heard-a-pin-drop-silence spread over the room. I thought about saying, "er, I mean an MGD mid October Amber", but I realized it was too late and I had shown up at the Black Tie wearing Dockers ... Okay, I'm exaggerating a ways, but it was kind of funny and it elicited a few comments from others at the table. In a strange twist of events, I ended up accidently drinking what they served catwoman, which is probably the icky stuff your are referring to (actually it was ok). When the mgd finally arrived, it kind of sat all by it's lonesome for sometime before some brave soul took a sip. I think when everyone left it was still sitting there. This ties into the slide show in that Brian's group found an old unopened can of mgd sitting in a creek so they ended up splitting it 4 or 5 different ways that night (reverently, without snide remarks). I believe the whole thing was meant to be a solid vindication of my choice of brews.

[#19]

I've made a hiking and scrambling career out of taking sometimes popular trails to the "guide book" destination and then continuing off-trail and alpine - usually in the oppositve direction. Very few people actually like to bushwhack and I don't believe that many will follow you die hard bushwhackers to your lake(S) of choice. Especially since you don't flag your route. I say far more (of those without their own destination creativity) would follow publicised reports that at least start on a trail.

[salish]

What a great thread. I don't think about being an explorer too much because I'm way, way down on the food chain as far as being a bushwhacker is concerned. Until this year, that is. Speaking of Blanca to Twin Lakes and/or visa versa, I plan on doing something similiar this September. I'm planning on heading from Blanca Lake to Glacier Basin, via the Columbia Glacier. I think Rubberlegs and I corresponded about this. Anyway, neat thread, I really enjoyed reading everyone's comments.

[Tom]

As far as the Twin-Blanca route, there was an book I remember checking out 15 years ago at one of the public libraries (can't remember which one) describing hikes in Monte Cristo area. They actually descibed the route from Twin-Blanca coming down the Columbia glacier. Sure wish I could find that book again.

[polarbear]

Here are some other lakes that look interesting: Frosty Lake, near Mt. Winthrop Snowy Lakes, near Tower Mtn/Golden Horn Lake of the Woods, near Lake Mountain South Lake & McAlester Lake, near McAlester Mtn