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| Do you support alternative E? |
| I support alternative E |
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22% |
[ 9 ] |
| I support something other than alternative E |
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77% |
[ 31 ] |
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| Total Votes : 40 |
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Message |
Brian Curtis
Trail Blazer/HiLaker
Joined: 16 Dec 2001
Posts: 1696 | TRs | Pics
Location: Silverdale, WA |
| Tom wrote: | | Brian, if a trail isn't "maintained to minimum standards" should it be closed to everyone? |
Closed, as in put up a gate? No.
No need to gate the roads, either. Stop maintaining certain roads. If the 4x4 groups want to keep them open at their expense then let them. The roads no one cares about will grow over quickly. I'm the wrong person to talk to about roads. I like roads even less then I like horses. I'd happily cut off I-90 if it would create more wilderness.
I guess there is sort of an economy boosting user fee here. If we want to be able to drive on certain roads we have to pay a 4x4 tax. Instead of a tag to hang on your mirror, you get an entire vehicle. Either way it is money out of my pocket. Hmm, I guess maybe I've talked myself into this. I do like paying my own way. I think I should be paying more for trails then people who don't use them. If I don't want to be taxpayer subsidized I should pay the 4x4 tax. But now my thoughts swing way the other direction. Why not save a bunch of money and maintain all FS roads to 4x4 standards?
that elitist from silverdale wanted to tell me that all carnes are bad--Studebaker Hoch
that elitist from silverdale wanted to tell me that all carnes are bad--Studebaker Hoch
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MtnGoat
Member
Joined: 17 Dec 2001
Posts: 11992 | TRs | Pics
Location: Lyle, WA |
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MtnGoat
Member
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 Wed Nov 19, 2003 3:11 am |
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Now that's an interesting idea, brian. Preserves vehicle access while cuting down on usage a bit, but roads are still open.
Diplomacy is the art of saying 'Nice doggie' until you can find a rock. - Will Rogers
Diplomacy is the art of saying 'Nice doggie' until you can find a rock. - Will Rogers
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Steve
Phlogiston Purveyor
Joined: 29 Jan 2002
Posts: 769 | TRs | Pics
Location: Bothell |
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Steve
Phlogiston Purveyor
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Wed Nov 19, 2003 8:00 am |
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The road was indeed maintained at least to the point where, in times past, the road was washed out they would rebuild it. I remember two times in the past ten years where the road had completely washed away. But the maintenance is minimal as we all can tell.
The amount of money spent to maintain it is peanuts compared to how much they collect in fees for the parking passes. The wankers on the WTA board and others in for this decision have hosed the rest of us who use it.
Despair is only for those who see the end beyond all doubt.
Despair is only for those who see the end beyond all doubt.
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Quark
Niece of Alvy Moore
Joined: 15 May 2003
Posts: 14152 | TRs | Pics
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Quark
Niece of Alvy Moore
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Wed Nov 19, 2003 9:38 am |
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| Steve wrote: | | The amount of money spent to maintain it is peanuts compared to how much they collect in fees for the parking passes. The wankers on the WTA board and others in for this decision have hosed the rest of us who use it. |
I don't think the trail park pass money is used for road maintenance. I could be wrong.
"...Other than that, the post was more or less accurate."
Bernardo, NW Hikers' Bureau Chief of Reporting
"...Other than that, the post was more or less accurate."
Bernardo, NW Hikers' Bureau Chief of Reporting
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MtnGoat
Member
Joined: 17 Dec 2001
Posts: 11992 | TRs | Pics
Location: Lyle, WA |
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MtnGoat
Member
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Wed Nov 19, 2003 1:55 pm |
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| Quote: | | Public marinas charge fees for boat launching. Bad analogy. So do airports (charge fees). |
We pay a fee too, gas tax, trail tax, and income tax.
| Quote: | | Elitism is in your every word. The average taxpayer pays for the roads, but only an elite few can drive the MFK. |
But those "elite" self choose their status, available as a choice to anyone else who has the desire to do so *and* the common choice to spend money to reach any trailhead, a vehicle.
Diplomacy is the art of saying 'Nice doggie' until you can find a rock. - Will Rogers
Diplomacy is the art of saying 'Nice doggie' until you can find a rock. - Will Rogers
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Slugman
Its a Slugfest!
Joined: 27 Mar 2003
Posts: 16874 | TRs | Pics
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Slugman
Its a Slugfest!
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Thu Nov 20, 2003 9:11 am |
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The marina fees and landing fees at an airport are collected each and every time they are used. We do not pay a fee to hike each time.
I agree about the self-selected thing. I would buy a high-ground-clearance vehicle if I needed it for many roads. I have never needed one before, just for this one road. I think it would be much cheaper for society as a whole to fix this one road, as opposed to thousands of people having to buy SUVs or pickup trucks just to drive one road. It seems disproportionate to me.
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Tom
Admin
Joined: 15 Dec 2001
Posts: 17851 | TRs | Pics
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Tom
Admin
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Thu Nov 20, 2003 9:51 am |
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There are other roads I would not want to drive a normal vehicle, albeit more doable than the MFK. White Chuck Mtn comes to mind. The road to Snowking wasn't a piece of cake either.
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Backpacker Joe
Blind Hiker
Joined: 16 Dec 2001
Posts: 23956 | TRs | Pics
Location: Cle Elum |
Sluggo, I didn't say that you were stupid, but what else can you take from a comment like "I agree that roads should be fixed for all cars or closed"
There is only one way to do that, and that is to pave them.
Or, "I agree that roads should be fixed for all cars or closed. It has never made much sense to me that an elite class of people should be able to have better access then other people."
How is it elitist in anyway by simply expecting people to have a vehicle capable of a gravel road?
By your logic we are ALL elitist because EVERY trail in the outdoors isn't accessible to the handicapped!
Life isn't FAIR, it never has been. Expecting people who enjoy hiking in general to have a vehicle capable of getting to trail heads is reasonable.
Oh, and what's with throwing politics into this.
| Quote: | | you cry "elitist' at anything you don't like |
No I don't.
| Quote: | | then you turn into an elitist at the first opportunity |
Uh, no I don't.
| Quote: | | so the Republican Party can sell us out to another Saudi Arabia |
I don't think that that had any place in THIS conversation, really.
| Quote: | | You say I'm "lucky" to have any roads at all. |
We are all lucky to have them, because closing them is the preferred method these days.
| Quote: | | I just want to get to the real forest on the other end of the road |
I understand your point, and I agree with it. But the "make roads passable to all cars or close them" was a pretty finite statement.
My point was simply that that isn't realistic. As usual I got to emotional.
Sorry.
TB
"If destruction be our lot we must ourselves be its author and finisher. As a nation of freemen we must live through all time or die by suicide."
Abraham Lincoln
"If destruction be our lot we must ourselves be its author and finisher. As a nation of freemen we must live through all time or die by suicide."
Abraham Lincoln
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Stefan
Member
Joined: 17 Dec 2001
Posts: 5091 | TRs | Pics
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Stefan
Member
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Thu Nov 20, 2003 10:52 am |
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Hey, has the middle fork been damaged by ANY of the recent flooding within the past month?
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Steve
Phlogiston Purveyor
Joined: 29 Jan 2002
Posts: 769 | TRs | Pics
Location: Bothell |
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Steve
Phlogiston Purveyor
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Thu Nov 20, 2003 11:05 am |
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I'm planning on hiking the dutch miller gap at the end of the year so I will find out then if no one does before that.
Despair is only for those who see the end beyond all doubt.
Despair is only for those who see the end beyond all doubt.
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Backpacker Joe
Blind Hiker
Joined: 16 Dec 2001
Posts: 23956 | TRs | Pics
Location: Cle Elum |
Steve, have you been up that road (middlefork) in the winter? I took a drive over Snoqualmie, Blewett, and Stevens yesterday. This year is looking to be a good one snow wise. If that remains true, you wont get a vehicle within 10 miles of the end of that road. Unless that vehicle is a snow machine.
You'll have a long walk.
TB
"If destruction be our lot we must ourselves be its author and finisher. As a nation of freemen we must live through all time or die by suicide."
Abraham Lincoln
"If destruction be our lot we must ourselves be its author and finisher. As a nation of freemen we must live through all time or die by suicide."
Abraham Lincoln
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Dante
Member
Joined: 16 Dec 2001
Posts: 2815 | TRs | Pics
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Dante
Member
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Thu Nov 20, 2003 12:24 pm |
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| Backpacker Joe wrote: | | If that remains true, you wont get a vehicle within 10 miles of the end of that road. Unless that vehicle is a snow machine. |
We should take my subie up there this winter, BPJ, and test it out. I've heard some amazing stories from guys who have aired down their superswampers or other offroad traction tires. Light car + big tires = awesome flotation.
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Backpacker Joe
Blind Hiker
Joined: 16 Dec 2001
Posts: 23956 | TRs | Pics
Location: Cle Elum |
Hey Dante, you have tons of room in that engine compartment. I have an on board air compressor you can have if you want. It's a good one. It was one of two I had in my little samurai. Around 4cfm. That will allow us to air UP after we air down for that road.
TB
"If destruction be our lot we must ourselves be its author and finisher. As a nation of freemen we must live through all time or die by suicide."
Abraham Lincoln
"If destruction be our lot we must ourselves be its author and finisher. As a nation of freemen we must live through all time or die by suicide."
Abraham Lincoln
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Dante
Member
Joined: 16 Dec 2001
Posts: 2815 | TRs | Pics
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Dante
Member
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Thu Nov 20, 2003 4:30 pm |
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| Backpacker Joe wrote: | | Hey Dante, you have tons of room in that engine compartment. I have an on board air compressor you can have if you want. It's a good one. It was one of two I had in my little samurai. Around 4cfm. That will allow us to air UP after we air down for that road. |
I'll take it! I bet I can put it where the AC compressor was! Thanks!
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Backpacker Joe
Blind Hiker
Joined: 16 Dec 2001
Posts: 23956 | TRs | Pics
Location: Cle Elum |
No problem. All you'll need to do is wire it up. I'd suggest a switch on the unit itself. It used to have one, but I got rid of it and put a switch on my dash in the samurai. I'll see if I can find that switch.
This is a good unit. You'll like it.
TB
"If destruction be our lot we must ourselves be its author and finisher. As a nation of freemen we must live through all time or die by suicide."
Abraham Lincoln
"If destruction be our lot we must ourselves be its author and finisher. As a nation of freemen we must live through all time or die by suicide."
Abraham Lincoln
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