[spanky]

Back in spring, on the WTA forum, I remember reading that the private land of the Tubal Cain Mine in the Buckhorn Wilderness (northeast Olympics) was up for sale. Someone even posted the URL of the sale. Sure enough, there it was, the Tubal Cain up for sale and advertised for mountain building. Anyone ever heard of what happened? Has any groups like Trust for Public Land of Nature Conservancy tried to buy it? Has Washington's Congressional delegation tried to get funds to buy in and add it to Olympic NF? Anyone heard what's new on this as of late Jan 2002?

[Brian Curtis]

A great question. I just did a google search and found some notices about the sale offer, but nothing else since last spring. If anything is happening it must be behind the scenes.

[McPilchuck]

I haven't heard a thing about this, funny, cause I have traveled extensively in the Buckhorn Wilderness for decades, and most recently as of last year up the Tubal Cain and beyond to climb around on Buckhorn Mtn. In fact, there are some reads on my site about the Buckhorns. But again, this is news to me? Having not a map handy, I am curious as to the wilderness boundary near the sale area as well?

[MtnGoat]

The sale either abuts the wilderness or is inside it, if I remember correctly. Looked like a pretty sweet chunk of land, wish I could afford it.

[spanky]

The Tubal Cain Mine and some surrounding acreage is private property. It was a patented mining claim under the infamous 1872 Mining Law. The area was for sale on a webpage that I saw back in May is the chunk of private land around the mine. It is in the heart of(and enclosed by) the Buckhorn Wilderness which is why I find this situation so disturbing. Theoretically, someone could build a lodge or other development in The Buckhorn but they could not build a road through the wilderness area to get there. The sale webpage did say that the site is "helicopter accessible". Maybe WA zoning laws would stop any large development there. But I think it was 100+ acres.

[reststep]

Here is the website for the real estate listing. http://www.johnlscott.com/dynamic/search_Listing.asp?I=1428510

[Tsolo]

Can anyone briefly describe how this particular area happens to be private property while in the middle of a wilderness area? (I assume the wilderness was previously national forest land.) It may have been a historical mining claim, but don't these areas revert to public ownership after mining activity has ceased?

[Newt]

I'm not familiar with the area or the mine but it was a *patent* mine. Meaning the law at the time allowed them to buy the land for as little as $5 an acre and even go so far as to not have to mine it in the future. It could even be resold as it is being done now The mine was established before the ONP and Buckthorn Wilderness so was excluded as it was private property. Someone correct me if I'm wrong here. I find it strange tho that there would be little if no access. On a side note Monte Cristo was up for sale a yr. or so ago. Ungodly cheap price. NN:)

[MtnGoat]

Patenting meant you were granted full title on a claim. It's no longer done, I believe that issuing new patents ceased decades ago and now claims are done as leases for mineral rights but the ownership stays with the US.

[Erik the Nav]

Well, if I had the 2.5 mil for a place to build a cabin, my next question would be, are the trails in open to pack animals? Could be cheaper than helicoptering in supplies & materials.. or not. If I recall correctly, and I did look into it some years back, there was a bit more to patenting a claim than just "paying $5 an acre." Similar to the homesteading process - you had to make improvements, and I think in the case of mining claims, you had to show some production. (?) Heh, the "map this property" function on the realtor's site gives a pretty funny result... I haven't been up there, another one on the 'want to go' list - I've presumed and from guides sounds like you can hike right up to the mine, etc... I guess the current owner has no 'no trespassing' signs up, eh? If someone buys and develops this property, will trails need re-routed? Or are there established right of ways across it? Ah, a dickering point, I'll get 'em to come down on the price so I can afford it..

[polarbear]

Something about this part of the add strikes me funny... "...utilize existing tunnels (storage facility?) " any way you can sell the thing!

[MtnGoat]

To maintain your claims you have to do a certain amount of yearly work in order to prove they are active. As long as they are active you continue to hold them, and in some situations there is a decade or two lag if you quit working them for them to revert. Basically this allows ownership during economic lags where a property may be shut down for some time as prices fluctuate. When I was doing field work for Nord Resources in the 80's, I think we had to do $200 per claim per year in order to keep them active. Contiguous claims allowed all the work to be done on one claim, so for 5 claims $1k a year on one of them was sufficient. We also did work on older patented claims where the title was owned by the claim holder, via leasing it from them for exploration. Hard rock claims are typically rectangular blocks 1500x600 feet. The basic shape is really a parallelogram, because you can do claims with non right angles at corners *if* you keep both pairs of sides parallel to each other, but which still meet the 1500x600 regulation. Meeting this condition means you can excercise "extralateral" rights on your claim, which means you can continue following a vein beyond the legal limit on the surface, but *only* within the projected lines of your claim. Which is why they must be parallel, because otherwise your projected property lines may increase in size or decrease as you proceed downwards. With modern pit mines which are not as oriented towards mining veins, but rely on ore disseminated in large diffuse bodies in the rock, the claims can be any shape and are governed by area limit, I think 20 acres. This also applies to placer claims where free gold is mined by sluice, dredge, or in the old days, hydraulics. Now *that* was a prescription for devastation everywhere. Just wash the hill downriver, mud and all! Placer exploration was the best, get to do a lot of outdoor sampling and do a lot of panning. I'm not a rockhound particulary, but I tell you when you shovel a load of dirt in a pan and do the work, seeing those glints of pure gold at the bottom when you're done is pretty darned cool. Previously mined sites with tunnels was the worst, it inevitably meant underground sampling work in wet musty tunnels, and it gets old hammering rocks off a wall onto a tarp, bagging and tagging, then moving 20 feet and doing it again. For hundreds of feet, or more. We'd usually work alone and the favorite game was to sneak up on someone working and try and scare the crap out of them. It was easy because pounding the wall with a sledge makes a lot of noise, so you'd move when they were hammering, and hopefully get right behind them or something and put a hand on their shoulder, or yell. more than you wanted to know, probably.

[-lol-]

[MtnGoat]

I worked there spring through fall for about five years. That was the seasonal job phase of my early twenties. I worked for Early Winters in the warehouse fall to spring, and worked weekends for a whitewater outfitter (wetsuits) in Lworth and Pateros. When the whitewater season ended in mid June, I'd go to Spokane and work for Nord until the snow flew whereever they were sending me, then i'd go back to Seattle and start at EW again. Those were great years, you never realize how free you were as a twenty something till you've chosen to add wife kid and house and look back. Places I went for Nord: Chewelah for half a year, Whitehall, Townsend, Cardwell, Helena in MT, St George UT for a summer, Idaho falls/ Caribou Mtn, Idaho city, Payette, and Wallace ID, Cave Junction Or and a few others. Great work, good pay, good per diem, company truck, and lots of climbing hills with transits and survey posts, notebooks and sample bags.

[Newt]

If making improvements/mining are a requirement for keeping the claim I would then assume that someone has continued to do so after all these years or it would revert back into the hands of the gov't? Or was it different before any later revisions to the law? Also if I was to find a nugget out in the middle of nowhere, staked the claim, submitted the necessary paper work and payed my bucks I should now be able to lease it provided I continued to improve/mine it along with any other requirements required? Let's assume I now have a legal claim as of today's laws. So then I ask, how the heck do I get access to bring in the required supplies and equipment if there isn't even so much as a trail and I need to cross Gov't land holdings? No way can I afford a Heli to do the job. I just need a road for my truck. I'm sure the big operations don't fly each and everything in. Just wondering. NN