Forum Index > Public Lands Stewardship > Good news on the Middle Fork decision?
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kiliki
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kiliki
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PostWed Dec 17, 2003 1:22 pm 
My vehicle does support my hobby 99% of the time. The MF Road is the only one I've ever been sure I was going to kill the car on. If people here get to complain that elderly and disabled people won't have access anymore, I get to complain that those of us who can't afford to go out and purchase another vehicle don't have access either.

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Steve
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Steve
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PostWed Dec 17, 2003 1:50 pm 
It certainly is the worst road I've been on, but I've heard the horseshoe basin road is pretty rough also, though I have not been on it. Like you I don't have a car that can navigate the road. I've got to beg my buddy with his SR5 to take me.

Despair is only for those who see the end beyond all doubt.
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kiliki
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kiliki
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PostWed Dec 17, 2003 2:07 pm 
They graded the Horseshoe Basin road in either 2001 or 2002-I went in 2002 and it was perfectly fine as long as you went reasonably slowly. The unpaved part is only 7 miles long, which is nice.

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Quark
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Quark
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PostWed Dec 17, 2003 2:21 pm 
HS Basin road - Iron Gate Rd #500. re-graded a couple years ago. Re-grade has held up this year. But I would hate to be on that road, even re-graded - during a rainy time. It's thick, thick fine dirt about a mile or so before the trailhead, no solid base. It'd be slick as snot in the rain, and looks like you'd sink beyond your axles.

"...Other than that, the post was more or less accurate." Bernardo, NW Hikers' Bureau Chief of Reporting
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Backpacker Joe
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Backpacker Joe
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PostWed Dec 17, 2003 3:20 pm 
Quote:
It'd be slick as snot in the rain, and looks like you'd sink beyond your axles
NOT if you have 37" tires! TB winksmile.gif winksmile.gif winksmile.gif winksmile.gif winksmile.gif winksmile.gif winksmile.gif winksmile.gif winksmile.gif winksmile.gif winksmile.gif

"If destruction be our lot we must ourselves be its author and finisher. As a nation of freemen we must live through all time or die by suicide." — Abraham Lincoln
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Brian Curtis
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Brian Curtis
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PostWed Dec 17, 2003 3:39 pm 
MtnGoat wrote:
Anyhow, I think it's time to push for closure at the end of the pavement at it's current location. Making access times way, way longer and limiting usage to only those with extra days or weeks of time to visit can only improve the wilderness.
Right on! Now you're talking.
Quote:
Now I'm sure this could be seen as extreme by some, who only want to limit someone elses access a little bit as they see it, but to those who do not have the luxury of extra days you may as well just keep them out permanently, because that's exactly what is going to happen. Yes, apparently the fact that my mom could rent a horse and take days off to visit her favorite places, which she will never have time to do, instead of just visiting in her sons truck, makes this not a closure. Yes, that surely changes the fact that she'll never go there again. Nice, and thanks.
I am reminded of a discussion we had a couple years ago. We were talking about no smoking laws. I pointed out that my wife and I cannot go see many musical acts we want to see because she has asthma and she cannot go into places were there is smoking or she will be sick for months. You said that was OK because we had the choice to go or not. Yes, we have the choice not to go, but we don't have the choice to go. Your mother has this choice, top. only in this case it is still possible whereas in my wife's case it isn't. And to say it would take days to get up there on a horse is just plain wrong. It would be an easy day trip to the end of the road and back.
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In spite of all the talk, no amount of verbal juggling changes the fact that cutting out users is not an increase in access.
If you are all about increased access then you should be advocating paving the road.

that elitist from silverdale wanted to tell me that all carnes are bad--Studebaker Hoch
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Stefan
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PostWed Dec 17, 2003 4:03 pm 
Brian Curtis wrote:
If you are all about increased access then you should be advocating paving the road.
I tried.....but they wouldn't put up the money for it. I wanted the road at level 1 standards......but I am okay if it stays at level 3 standards.

Art is an adventure.
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Stefan
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PostWed Dec 17, 2003 4:11 pm 
I still don't understand this Middle Fork thing. Why can't the Forest Service just say "....will discontinue maintaining the road from Dingford Creek to the end." instead of the Forest Service current mantra, "....will discontinue maintaining the road from Dingford Creek to the end...AND...erect a gate at Dingford Creek."

Art is an adventure.
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mgd
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mgd
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PostWed Dec 17, 2003 8:16 pm 
When the road is improved to Dingford Creek, I think the whole nature of the valley will change. This is going to become a destination place. There will be lots of traffic. Given that, the remainder of the road has to be improved considerably, or gated.

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Slugman
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Slugman
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PostWed Dec 17, 2003 9:13 pm 
Regardless of any propaganda you may read here, no one will be locked out of the Wild sky. If there were roads there now, they couldn't make it wilderness. They even removed some sections at the behest of snowmobilers and motorcyclists. So everyone is on board, then the diabolically clever Fascism machine dreamed up this "handicapped and old people" red herring, just to try to monkey-wrench the whole thing at the last minute. Notice how every ultra-rightie started saying the exact same thing at the same time. Complete lock step mentality, or should I say "goose step"?

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Backpacker Joe
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Backpacker Joe
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PostWed Dec 17, 2003 9:20 pm 
You're wrong Sluggo. There are two very prominent 4x4 trails (read old roads) that will be closed forever if this thing goes through. One entire trail has been gated already (Shaw lake trail) That and many other recreational areas now used my atv's and motorcycles will be closed. But then you dont care about that do you? They arent your hobbies so why should you give a damn about those people who regularly enjoy them and will have NOWHERE else even remotely close to go. Whereas you and every other hiker have NUMEROUS places to go in all directions. TB

"If destruction be our lot we must ourselves be its author and finisher. As a nation of freemen we must live through all time or die by suicide." — Abraham Lincoln
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Slugman
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Slugman
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PostWed Dec 17, 2003 9:39 pm 
Joe, I DO care. I just had read that several places were removed from the wilderness to accommodate the orv people. If they are still unhappy, then that is something to consider. But how many handicapped ride orv's? How many old people, too old to hike, ride orv's? I don't know, but I'd wager it isn't many. I firmly believe that all users should have places to go. There are many places not even close to wilderness designation that could be used for motorsports. It's up to those people to push for those types of areas, but not at the expense of our last few places that do qualify as wilderness. Put some lights and such on your bike and ride it on the FS roads. Last I heard, there were thousands of miles those around here. agree.gif

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Backpacker Joe
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Backpacker Joe
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PostWed Dec 17, 2003 10:04 pm 
Quote:
I firmly believe that all users should have places to go
Well, I can appreciate that. We have been trying to get Snohomish county to designate that area (Reiter pit) an official ORV park. Mush like those near Mt. Vernon and near Rainier. The trouble is that the county must then take responsibility for the area. I fear that ultimately the only recourse will be to move to Idaho, Montana, Utah etc etc. States that recognize the worth and an value of liberty. States that TRULY DO PRACTICE DIVERSITY. Funny how a leftist term really only relates to them in areas that they designate to have worth. TB

"If destruction be our lot we must ourselves be its author and finisher. As a nation of freemen we must live through all time or die by suicide." — Abraham Lincoln
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Slugman
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Slugman
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PostWed Dec 17, 2003 10:20 pm 
Maybe there's some truth to that. But motorsports do cause a lot of injuries, and noise, and pollution, and erosion. Aren't there places in Eastern Wa to ORV? Maybe the problem is just your location re those areas. Besides, how hard is it to make a bike street legal, maybe some lights and a license plate, right? Then you could go to Bear lake, Coal Lake, Kelcema Lake, Boardman Lake, all on just a short stretch of the Mtn Loop highway. There's got to be a million places like that around here. And what about places like Packwood lake, doesn't that allow motorbikes? And some places near Entiat? I think you exaggerate the extent to which ORVers are denied access to the National forests. I could be wrong, since it is not my field of expertise.

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Brian Curtis
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Brian Curtis
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PostWed Dec 17, 2003 10:35 pm 
I'm confused. The roads proposed to be closed by the Wild Sky Wilderness designation are Bitter Creek, Trout Creek, and the last two miles of the Rapid River road. Bitter Creek has been gated for decades, though I guess the gate has been unlocked recently. The last two miles of the Rapid River road will be turned into wheelchair accessible trail. Trout Creek has quite a bit of 4x4 road. The Shaw Lake road isn't part of this. That is either on state or private land, not FS, I think. The Reiter Pit area would remain open to ORV use if the Wild Sky is designated wilderness. Last I heard the DNR said they would look into making that a multiple use ORV park.

that elitist from silverdale wanted to tell me that all carnes are bad--Studebaker Hoch
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