[polarbear]

Bill S.1107 advances.

[Backpacker Joe]

Nice. TB

[Malachai Constant]

If it passes Schrub will probably veto it

[Backpacker Joe]

ALWAYS the optimist, that's Mal. TB

[Smokey]

The current fee program doesn't expire until Dec 2005 though. Plenty of time to come up with something even more devious.

[ridgewalker]

BS..... I say if you don't want to pay the fees be prepared to swing an axe or work a cross-cut-saw! I know that is not a popular statement, but I have done time on trail mainenaince. It is HARD WORK that has but few rewards... A lot of people out of Seattle love to sit around daydream of the backcountry trails they want to hike once the skies get great. Then hit the trails and with A) gripe about the conditions or B) gripe about the Fees. The reality is until enough activisim is rounded up to make this a PERMINATE part of the budget of the Forest Service, there will not be the amount of money to maintain the trails to the conditions that the growing Seattle Outdoor Class demands. There are ways around the fees, pick up a saw or axe, and head out. Log it with the forest service, and you get a pass. But to those that value the trails for there serenity in city life, yet don't want to invest their energy into there preservation, then they should have to pay to have others do just that. For the 15 miles of maintained trail on the PCT from Suiattle River, to Milk Creek I spent over a month of cutting old growth and brushing out. Then 2 years later the same conditions again. The budget of the Darrington Ranger District is as low as normal. With the recent winds, they don't have the money to pay for a crew to head out there. For a month, I got paid less then minimum wage, that is still more then one trailhead will receive over two weeks, and I was on just one section of trail... When you go to pay that once a year fee... Ask yourself this..... What is the investment return on your 30-40 dollars.... Really think about that... I don't mean to ruffle feathers, I just believe that every hiker should give back to what they love soo much. I pay the fee then go out to work, it is the cost of our sport. It is the cost of my sanity in day to day life. To pour over the pictures and the memories. I cannot put a price on what it gives back to me... If there were no trails, I would have a problem with the fee. But their are, and thoes treads cost money to maintain... -- Ridgewalker

[Plinko]

[Slugman]

[Stefan]

What we have to do now is add a "no recreational fee" section to a bill that gives a 20% raise to Congressmen, and walla, it will pass both houses. Bush will veto it, but Congress will then revote and will definitely have 2/3rds majority.

[-lol-]

[Malachai Constant]

What you really have to do is make sure it will not be folded into an omnibus bill and killed in committee whith nobody having to take a public position against it. Nothing congress like to do better than tax annd spend without taking responsibility for it.

[forest gnome]

Hey why don't you people look up the thread of "actual trail improvements" you have seen this year? NO new bridges, or drainage work done in the last 30 years on the Necklace valley , snoqualmie lakes, dingford creek , ect..... ect... And yes I have done a few days of work my-self.We are talking of the trail sections once you leave the valley, and start climbing, not the first few miles on the dorothy lk. trail.

[polarbear]

[ridgewalker]

Any argument against what I said could be used. It is a deep seeded feeling. I was rasied in the ideas that there are something worth fighting for, and there are somethings worth putting your muscle and labor to when they go lax. I do not agree that the FS Budget should be spent on so much logging. But I also see it from their perspective as well. Yes there are always two perspectives to this. They have an interesting directive. To provide multi use benefits for Forest as a crop, and forests as a source of recreation. Things are handed to us. We pay taxes. But mind you, some of the lowest Taxes of the the western world. At the same time, the US is divided about what the prioties of this nation should be. Make no mistake, politics reflects the views of Americans. There is a lot of us. Individual in our minds. Individual in our priorities. I have had many long and interesting debates on why we should save forests at all. These are not with unintellegent people. But it gives me the understanding that views on national priorities are not the same from person to person. When I walked out of the woods 5 days after 9-11, there was not a soul that could have then told me that every dollar should not be spent defending our homeland. Yet I was in the woods. Taking in nature. I could never understand what they went through. I can never understand their reasons. But I cannot discount their priorities. I sit in a city that cannot for the life of them agree on a tax program to benifit their own civil projects. So when it comes to understanding why the FS has gotten the shaft I know only too well the reality of it. Sometimes you can't wait for the national government to get to, action has to be taken on it's own. That is my understanding what the NW Forest Pass was to be. An act by users to support what they used, in lue of the lack of financial support. I gain benefit from other tax dollars every single day that I go to school, use a road, or turn on the electrical switch. There is soo much that subsidizes our lives. Many things that people don't appreicate. If you want forests to be a priority. If you want the domestic to be a prioity. Then activism is what has to happen. But as part of that, the nation has to understand, it cannot dictate terms in the world anymore. We have to be prepard to face the economic realities. Our country is in a dangerous spot. We have no clear focus. What does this have to do with Trails. Clear. I am not willing to wait for the national sediment to change. I know I am in a minority. I find a connection that is part of the Transendentalist and Romantic movement, with the mountains. I cannot explain to anyone else what that means. All I can do, is head out to the trails, with my axe. pay my fee, and take in what I can of this world. Educate others to appreiate what lessons the mountains have to offer. And finally be an activist to change the nature of american direcetion, writting congressial leaders that we need to appricate our natural heritage, not destroy it. I may sound hostile. But this is the only thing I really, truely care about. Muir was right... The mountains have the power to motivate. We all stuggle day to day in our jobs. We find a personal connection to what we do give to the government. And feel a sense of betrayal when our programs go unfunded. But again we ARE in the minority. Just another special interest group. Many of the trails in Canada have NO GOVERNMENT FUNDING. They are way trails punched through Forest Lands. Routes of climbers finding those hidden peaks. Somethings you just have to do yourself. -- ridgewalker

[Wapiti]