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Dale
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Dale
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PostTue Mar 23, 2004 7:12 pm 
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http://perc.org/publications/percreports/march2004/recreation.php?s=2
http://tinyurl.com/37eoe

SLAMMING THE DOOR ON LOW-INCOME PEOPLE? - THE ETHICS OF RECREATION FEES
By J. Bishop Grewell

A federal program that began in 1996 has raised fees at national parks, forests, and other public lands. This policy, which may become permanent, raises a question: Is it unfair to low-income people to charge substantial entrance fees?
<snip>

In sum, fairness is an important concern-but recreational fees may improve equity rather than make it worse. They shift the burden to those who spend more time in recreation-the middle-class and wealthy-and away from those who use the parks less.
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Far Fig Newton
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Far Fig Newton
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PostTue Mar 23, 2004 7:32 pm 
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1. Join a work party with WTA and get a free pass. Two work parties and get a yearly pass.

2. Carpool. One pass, one tank of gas. Probably save more than the pass.

3. Park more than 1/4 mile from a trailhead.

4. Sneak into National Parks very, very early before the booths are manned.
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polarbear
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PostTue Mar 23, 2004 8:13 pm 
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Hey Al S Enne, those are good ways to get around the pass and save money and all, but this thread is about ethics, fairness!  You are drifting more than a Christopher Cross' dinghy without a daggerboard. agree.gif

Quote:
They shift the burden to those who spend more time in recreation-the middle-class and wealthy-and away from those who use the parks less.

So the middle class and wealthy pay for their passes, but does anyone's taxes ever really go down?  Of course not!  April 15th approaches....more and more taxes in addition to the a-la-carte ones that are now in fashion.  I still want to have a tea party at Snow Lake. up.gif

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Lagerman
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Lagerman
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PostTue Mar 23, 2004 8:15 pm 
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Heh, join a work party on WTA.

I tried that, I didnt go through the whole ring around, so correct me if I am wrong.

They wanted a 25 dollar fee for my medical and application.

Then the party I wanted to join they wanted 125 dollars for me to go. (100 if I was a member) and as far as I could see on the sheet about the party, they provided juice and cookies.............

I am a hard worker and willing to help out (I do make money donations to places I feel worthly) but I placed the letter in the round file can, call me if you want me to work for free, cause I aint gonna pay to do it.

I am sure there where plenty of people to take my spot.
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jenjen
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PostTue Mar 23, 2004 8:41 pm 
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confused.gif  What kind of work party were you trying to join?  I've been joining WTA work parties for years and have never had to pay a fee of any kind.

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If life gives you melons - you might be dyslexic
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jimmymac
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jimmymac
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PostTue Mar 23, 2004 8:50 pm 
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Musta been a week-long. Which offers a little more than juice and cookies.

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"Profound serenity is the product of unfaltering Trust and heightened vulnerability."
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touron
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touron
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PostTue Mar 23, 2004 9:11 pm 
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Juice and cookies sounds more like a blood drive.  Watts going on!?

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Touron is a nougat of Arabic origin made with almonds and honey or sugar, without which it would just not be Christmas in Spain.
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-lol-
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-lol-
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PostTue Mar 23, 2004 10:18 pm 
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Loggerman wrote:
I tried that, I didnt go through the whole ring around, so correct me if I am wrong.

YOU = WRONG

Read here about the WTA week-longs.
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Lagerman
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Lagerman
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PostTue Mar 23, 2004 10:34 pm 
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I thought I must be, I had just read the information that they sent me, and thats what I got from it.

I still wouldnt personally pay for it, but, I am sure its fun




Thanx for correction
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jenjen
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PostTue Mar 23, 2004 10:55 pm 
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The one day work parties are fun, free, and you get a day pass.  2 of those and you get an annual pass.

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If life gives you melons - you might be dyslexic
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Quark
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Quark
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PostTue Mar 23, 2004 11:10 pm 
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L, you're not paying $125 to work.  You're paying for the 3 good meals per day they give you, the tools that they supply, the pack string that hauls in the food and tools and kitchen implements and the cost of organizing the trip - someone has to buy the food, pack it, do all the paperwork, coordinate with the land managers, there's payroll and other usual overhead costs for running the organization.  The work party camp is placed in the best places, chosen by WTA and the land manager.  Worksites are great, too - they know you're out there huffing it, and they want volunteers to have a great camp to come home to each night.

The work is hard and isn't for everyone.  You slog in the mud, push rocks, carry logs, build rock walls by hand, bridges by hand, turnpike by hand, from scratch - from choosing the right tree to falling the tree to hauling that tree to the site and peeling it, then  prepping the tread, to notching the logs, hand-drilling the holes in the logs to pound re-bar after re-bar after re-bar, to hauling bucket after bucket of pea-gravel from the borrow pit that you located and excavated maybe 50 yards away.  If it rains and sleets for a week, well then you just work in the rain and sleet for a week.  It's pretty great.

Wednesday are the day off for dayhiking with your new freinds, or sub-sets, or solo.  Sometimes a land manager is on the trip, someone who has been in the area 20 years or so, and knows some great places for dayhikes.

Weekend trips are available when the backcountry opens, if you're not sure about weeklongs and want to try it out.  No cost, they are carcamps and WTA supplies burgers/veggie burgers, you bring a dish to share Saturday night.

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"...Other than that, the post was more or less accurate."

Bernardo, NW Hikers' Bureau Chief of Reporting
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Lagerman
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Lagerman
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PostTue Mar 23, 2004 11:20 pm 
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I understand, I didnt realize the extent of the service they provided, but, I know all the money you spend goes to supporting that trip.


Well........ I am just too cheap, I could pack in my own food, and use my own tools, and just help out. Just not for me personally.

I am sure it is a great organization.
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MooseAndSquirrel
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MooseAndSquirrel
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PostTue Mar 23, 2004 11:23 pm 
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Yeah but why can't they offer more wholesome food for you (like the ground turkey parts burger  chicken.gif  burger.gif ) instead of all that icky candy and soda pop! That's what I want to know.  tongue.gif

I thought I'd never hear someone else bitchin' about public service work-sheesh. Wrong. I've worked for VOW for years and gosh darn it they make me pay for my own gas to get to the workparty meeting place and I have to suppy my own work clothes and boots too. Now let's see, besides that what have gotten out of it? T-shirts, sweatshirts, video tapes, snack food, pop, $42 book, recognition awards, satisfaction of volunteering, meeting interesting and talented people, instruction and proper use of tools and on and on. And, I'd do it without all the nice freebies and attaboy awards, that's just icing on the cake.
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Lagerman
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Lagerman
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PostTue Mar 23, 2004 11:27 pm 
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Ya, maybe if they had open bar nights up there I wouldnt be as cheap clown.gif  lol.gif
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Backpacker Joe
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Backpacker Joe
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PostWed Mar 24, 2004 2:59 am 
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Quote:
1. Join a work party with WTA and get a free pass. Two work parties and get a yearly pass.

2. Carpool. One pass, one tank of gas. Probably save more than the pass.

3. Park more than 1/4 mile from a trailhead.

4. Sneak into National Parks very, very early before the booths are manned.

Figure that your taxes ALREADY pay (or should) for such things and bag it.  Ive never bought the pass and Ive never gotten a ticket!!! 

Kind of strange, but true.

Ultimately this pass business is just ANOTHER excuse to tax people under the gies that "We all should pay our own way" B.S..

I agree with ML, volunteer if you want to get involved.  If you subscribe to the "I want my trails TREE AND SCRUB FREE fil-os-o-fee" then by all means volunteer and work your butt off.

I cant be a total hypocrite.  I LIKE it when the trails I hike on are obstacle free, but it certainly isn't a requirement.  Mostly I dont care whether I hike on good trails or not.

To each his or her own.

TB

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"If destruction be our lot we must ourselves be its author and finisher. As a nation of freemen we must live through all time or die by suicide."

Abraham Lincoln
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