[Trevor]

Enigma and I pushed our fears aside and opted to take a stab at Dickerman. Much snow had waned near the trailhead since my visit last week, which gave us high hopes at the start of the hike. We counteracted the switchbacks with every single working muscle in our bodies, and there were times where the switchbacks had the supremacy. Around two miles in, snow abruptly came upon us, consequently accompanied by a decline in speed and balance. The looming mountains and craving for accomplishment increased our desire to reach the top, so folding to the snow was not an option. We saw an opening and we confidently lumbered upwards ,assuming it was the top. The views here were excellent ,but the view right defied our assumption. The time was now 6:10, which didn't leave us with ample time for the trek back. We reached the car at sunset, following a quick jog back down.

[newdawnfades]

I see you guys decided to brave Dickerman rather than the mighty Mt. Pilchuck. Sounds like a treacherous journey.

[Andrew]

I surprised myself with how far we got. It was an enjoyable trip, even with the constant postholing nearing our turnaround spot. The way down was a breeze, took us a tad over an hour at the expense of aching ankles and knees....oh wait....everything. I'd like to marry a masseuse, for quicker recovery.

[jimmymac]

[jenjen]

To put Jimmymac's point more bluntly, you guys walked up an avalanche chute. An avalanche chute that discharges routinely with snowfall and temperature changes. So here would be the questions I would ask myself if heading up that route: 1) What is the predicted avalanche danger for that area? 2) What do the snow layers look like (determined by digging a trench and looking, or better by digging out 3 sides of a square block of snow and seeing how much force it takes for it to dislodge). 3) Does my partner have a shovel and probe? Does he have a beacon? Does he know how to use them? If all of these factors check out, then by all means go for it. Obviously the slope didn't discharge and everything was fine. FWIW I normally wait for late May before heading up Dickerman, the snow is consolidated by then and easy to kick steps up, any avy danger is past, the bugs aren't out yet, and the view is sublime.

[Trevor]

Upon ingressing every dangerous situation I always make the assessment of whether this is too dangerous or not. My instincts would not allow me to enter a situation where I knew injury was susceptible. Our intentions were to stop after hitting snow, but after our appraisal of the safety of the environment we deduced that this would be manageable without being prone to any adverse effects, which doesn't necessarily imply that the situation's safety is correspondent to our conjecture. Safety is at risk under any circumstance while hiking regardless of the conditions ,although hazard is amplified this time of year. Which is a great incentive to be prepared, and I do believe that was our biggest indiscretion at that point. Our confidence shouldn't have been as high without implements like a flashlight and shovel, but that also doesn't connote that we were completely reckless. We hiked at a safe pace, and turned around at a proper time due to the impending darkness. On the ensuing mountain trip I'll make sure to make the proper equipment adjustments. Also I will heavily scrutinize the trail description prior to my departure. Never have I heard one gripe about having too much safety, and everything that brings security should be considered before a trip.

[jimmymac]

I don't question your attitude. I wish I had been as squared away as you when I was your age. My concern -- founded or unfounded -- is for your awareness. Your integrity and responsible attitude are great assets; leverage them with a manageable stream of new information. Ten bucks will probably get you a used copy of Freedom of the Hills. By learning from other people's mistakes (sometimes fatal mistakes) you will be able to be much more confident about your confidence. The life you save may be that of the person who doesn't have to come after you.

[Eric]

Indeed, beware of avalanches. Besides the possibility of dying, if snow were to fill up your mouth we as message board readers would suffer the seemingly interminable deprivation of your ostentatious locquiousness which has so adroitly manifested itself in this here exemplary abstract of your Dickerman peregrination. This brings to mind the old folk-saying: Until the steep slopes' snow melts from the heat A salubrious Trevodactyl would be wise to retreat

[Andrew]

We saw a 50-something guy with his dog on the way up. I'd venture to say that we went about as far as he did, if a little bit further. Although parts of the snow were pretty deep, I kept to the compacted snowprints of previous hikers. At our turn around point, it was evident that somebody had gone the whole way. I don't want you thinking that we were wandering aimlessly in the fresh powder. However, that's not to say that the people who made the path were experienced themselves, but we definitely felt within the realm of safety.

[jimmymac]

I hope ya don't think that I'm accusing you or anyone else of incompetence. That would require me to be competent. The original TR made it sound like you were hiking up one of the gullies. If you were, then consider JenJen's advice real closely. There's at least one "right way" to do most anything. For a lot of things, you can arrive at one of the preferred methods through a process of elimination. (After enough of the "wrong ways" have bitten you in the a**, you tend to figure out the right way.) Nothing beats first hand experience. But battlefields and avalanches chutes are exceptionally poor places to rely exclusively on trial & error learning. Previous steps, old flagging ribbons, and "feelings" of confidence are pale substitutes for the kind of practices that JenJen was advocating. Sewer laborers never die in ditches that they feel are unsafe. If they feel like a hole is unstable, they get the hell out and install shoring. Guys get buried in collapsed trenches when they "feel" the unsupported walls are safe. They let their feelings, rather than good practices, guide their actions. In so doing, they gain valuable first-hand experience that would serve them well on their next job if they were not dead. Yes, I know I'm overstating the situation you and Trevodacktyl were in. But there are times when doing it "the right way" makes certain methods and equipment important, even though a really casual approach feels perfectly adequate.

[Trevor]

JimmyMac, Throughout this thread we have signified rebuttals towards you concerning our safety, but we really should have spent more time to thank you for your concern. I greatly appreciate the fact that you care. We as subordinate beings need to spend more time aiding and assisting each other so that we may become united, for its under the unity that we all blossom. Any severe injury or loss to anyone on this site could permanently offset the chemistry we currently find here as fellow hikers. Preserving ours and each other's welfare should be our number one concern.

[jimmymac]

So it sounds like you're not in favor of a Backpacker Joe / Marylou social? In all seriousness, I really appreciate your kind words. I totally agree with your statement. We get in each others' faces sometimes, but we've all got each others' backs when trouble's a brewing. One big family. A tad dysfunctional, but one big family, sharing one big electronic loft. ... Goodnight Johnboy, Goodnight Elizabeth, Goodnight Marylou...

[Trevor]

hmm, I am usually occupied, but for a social a sacrifice is worthy. I haven't examined the thread, and am unaware of your guys' substantiated date for it. My ideal gathering for us hikers, considering this a hiking site, would be a lunch outdoors somewhere, perhaps following a small day hike, but I will never complain over ice cream.

[polarbear]

The BPJ ML social is a good idea. Better to have it occur in a somewhat controlled environment than at some place like Pro Mountain Sports.

[peppersteak'n'ale]

I think, in the spirit of this thread, it should be held on the slopes of Mt. Dickerman.......................