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kiliki
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PostThu Apr 08, 2004 9:19 am 
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*sigh*
Not the best start ever.
Who is still optimistic?
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Backpacker Joe
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PostThu Apr 08, 2004 10:00 am 
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I would have been optomistic had they hired DUSTY BAKER when he WANTED to com here.

I would have been optomistic if they had gotten our man Lou that BAT that he begged for year after year.

I would have been optomistic if they had gotten that bat this year.

The ownership is VERY happy filling the seats as they do now.  They are NOT commited to winning the series!



TB

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"If destruction be our lot we must ourselves be its author and finisher. As a nation of freemen we must live through all time or die by suicide."

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-lol-
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PostThu Apr 08, 2004 10:24 am 
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Sore Feet
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PostThu Apr 08, 2004 10:40 am 
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Unless they suffer from some serious injuries, Anaheim will win the west, period.  I think we've still got a chance at the Wild Card, seeing as NY's pitching is overrated, and Oakland doesn't have the offense that the rest of the West has.

Remember, last year, we lost the first two games, and went on to win 11 of the next 18.

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kiliki
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PostThu Apr 08, 2004 11:21 am 
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Thank you for that reminder, Sore Feet. Oh, well, whatever their record, I still love them.
I was especially happy to see Danny start on Opening Day, since Davis is now our starting catcher.
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BarePaw
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PostThu Apr 08, 2004 11:54 am 
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The trends over the last few years have shown strong starts and then poor finishes for the Mariners. Maybe this year will be the opposite.
Here's to hoping  drink.gif

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borank
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PostThu Apr 08, 2004 12:37 pm 
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kiliki wrote:
since Davis is now our starting catcher.

I know they've wanted Davis to take the job, but after Melvin was publically critical of Davis' pitch calling this spring, it doesn't surprise me to see Wilson playing.
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Brain
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PostThu Apr 08, 2004 2:47 pm 
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Not going to be the M's year.  Anaheim will win the West, New York and Boston will make the playoffs (which is division winner and which is wild card doesn't  much matter), and who cares about the Central.

Anaheim added Vlad and Guillen, in the field while the M's got Aurillia and Ibanez.  Who would you rather have.  Angels also picked up Colon and Escobar on the mound and the Mariners got...???  Guardado may be OK, but he's only had one good season.
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kiliki
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PostThu Apr 08, 2004 3:44 pm 
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Good god, we just got swept.  frown.gif
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MooseAndSquirrel
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PostThu Apr 08, 2004 4:02 pm 
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The Mariners are OLD, have broken down in the second half the last two seasons. Everybody and his brother (except the M's brass) could see that we needed offensive help but got second tier hitters instead of the Big Boppers we could really use. It's only three games into the season but I'm not too optimistic. As I think BPJ said, as long as the M's fill the seats they have no incentive to spend spend spend. It's again way too early to get a feel on attendance because they don't draw as well in the early season Safeco games. If they put in another sub-par year the fannies will start to dwindle- just like it happened to the Seahawks and Sonics. This market isn't like the old Cubs or Red Sox ones that drew fans irregardless of winning or losing.
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Sore Feet
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PostThu Apr 08, 2004 6:16 pm 
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Pitching isn't an issue.  Moyer rarely has rough outings, so it's good he gets one out of the way now, and Piniero needs a little time to find his stuff, but all 5 starters will take us all year.  It was nice to see Garcia throwing well, but Hasagawa appears to be a little kinked out right now.  I don't necessarily think the M's offense is bad, it's definitely an improvement over last year thanks to dumping Cameron and Cirillo.

I do predict, however, with the money saved from Sasaki's contract, that the brass will go out for a bat before the trade deadline.  Jason Kendall would be a nice addition, then we can dump Davis off.  Also, what's the point of getting Cabrera, especially since we had to give up Looper, if he's not gonna be played?! vent.gif

I still say make an effort to bring Griffey back to DH after Edgar retires.  Maybe trade Garcia and Ben Davis and some minor league arm, at the all star break, for Alfonso Soriano.  That way Spiezio can take over at 1st after Olerud retires, Aurilia moves to third, Soriano can do short, and the M's won't have to worry about Garcia's contract.  Then, since his contract is up at the end of the year, if he has a good season, make him a great offer next winter to bring him back.  agree.gif

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MooseAndSquirrel
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PostThu Apr 08, 2004 7:56 pm 
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Sore Feet wrote:
Pitching isn't an issue. Moyer rarely has rough outings, so it's good he gets one out of the way now, and Piniero needs a little time to find his stuff, but all 5 starters will take us all year. It was nice to see Garcia throwing well, but Hasagawa appears to be a little kinked out right now. I don't necessarily think the M's offense is bad, it's definitely an improvement over last year thanks to dumping Cameron and Cirillo.

Maybe, but Cameron has a homer and brings superior defense- compared to 0 homers to all our new acquisitions. So far gimpy Spiezio hasn't played and ? when he will actually return, Bloomquist hasn't done squat, Aurillia's best YEAR is behind him and he is no Carlos Guillen with the glove. Getting Soriano would be great offensively- he hits dingers & scores runs, but he is a butcher with the glove. Where do you play him? Not our 999th left fielder I hope! Scouting report:


Sore Feet wrote:
I do predict, however, with the money saved from Sasaki's contract, that the brass will go out for a bat before the trade deadline. Jason Kendall would be a nice addition, then we can dump Davis off. Also, what's the point of getting Cabrera, especially since we had to give up Looper, if he's not gonna be played?! vent.gif

Kendall's stats don't seem to be that eye-popping and he's supposed to have an average arm, as well as a big contract. I agree Davis seems a lost cause and Wilson calls a good game ( if that isn't overstated a zillion times)- definitely we need an upgrade at catcher but I wonder if Kendall is the answer.
Sore Feet wrote:

I still say make an effort to bring Griffey back to DH after Edgar retires. Maybe trade Garcia and Ben Davis and some minor league arm, at the all star break, for Alfonso Soriano. That way Spiezio can take over at 1st after Olerud retires, Aurilia moves to third, Soriano can do short, and the M's won't have to worry about Garcia's contract. Then, since his contract is up at the end of the year, if he has a good season, make him a great offer next winter to bring him back. agree.gif

Griffey has apparently said over and over again he doesn't want to DH, period- he still feels he is a full-time player- whether true or not! I think in a way the sooner Edgar, Olerud, Wilson retire we can all move on, getting some new fresh blood on the roster. Build the team around Ichiro & Boone, if we suck for a couple years so be it. Florida sure turned themselves around fairly quickly- Series champs to doormat to champs. What's so damned frustrating is the refusal of the brass here to take any more gambles after being burned by the Cirillo deal- which with 20-20 hindsight was a poor player evaluation to begin with, what with his inflated Colorado stats.
I hope they prove me wrong and Olerud, Edgar and the gang have monster years, but I don't think so.
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Eric
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PostThu Apr 08, 2004 8:48 pm 
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It's only three games out of 162. I don't think it really means much of anything. The pitching is good enough and deep enough that they will be in the race late in the year again.

Still, I have a hard time seeing where this team has improved itself. Spezio is a mediocre hitter who isn't a real third baseman even if he were not injured. He can't hit worse than our 3B did last year but he isn't gonna hit .300 or 30 HRs either. And Cirillo, as bad as his meltdown as a hitter was, was still a great defensive third baseman. Ibanez really isn't much of a better hitter than Cameron and certainly the OF defense has gone from one of the best trios of all time to maybe a slightly above average group. Davis hasn't put it together which is clearly one spot they were hoping would get better on it's own. Too bad, he's got a nice arm and nice pop; he could really be a good player if he put it all together. Aurelia has a little more pop than Guillen but is a little worse defensively. Starters are the same. Bench is still lame pretty much though that's not a big deal provided that people stay healthy. The relievers are a lot different but I'm not sure they are any better. Hasagawa will probably be good again in spite of today but last year was obviously a career year. He gave up as many runs today as he did in about the first three months of last season. Sasaki was obviously messed up last year but for his career his production is comparable to Guardado's. On one hand they were lucky to get out of a bad contract with Sasaki for this year and he is getting old but on the other hand he is probably the most consistent closer the Mariners have ever had. Jarvis and Meyers blow but I like Mateo and Soriano is just too freaky. Overall though they've gone from Sasaki, Nelson and Rhodes at the start of last year to Guardado, Jarvis and Meyers. That's a downgrade.

The offense should be marginally better and the defense will definitely be worse. Most of the players pretty much performed in line with expectation last year, roughly. Other than Garcia or Olerud, or maybe Ibanez blowing up, it's difficult to imagine where improvement could come from individually. So either they have to just win a ton of close games or everyone has a great year or something or else they're looking at 93 and no playoffs again IMO.

Excepting 2001 which clearly was an anomaly, this has been a 90 win team three of the last four years and I don't see that as being an different this year. No wildcard for the Mariners, not unless Pedro and/or Schilling get hurt. The Red Sox and Yankees are just too good. They'll both win 100 games. I like the Mariners chances to finish ahead of the A's. The A's just have no offense whatsoever. But I think their chances of beating the Angels may rest with Vlad blowing out his back again with that flailing swing of his. If he doesn't, I'd guess they'll finish a few games back in second. But if he does then they have a respectable chance at beating out the Angels and going to the playoffs.
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borank
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Lake dork
PostThu Apr 08, 2004 10:47 pm 
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Unless they finally resolve the glare issue off the 'hitters eye' and/or move the fences in slightly, the M's will continue to have difficulty enticing a top tier hitter to play here.
Griffey was great when he was here, but he's become a head case and his salary would trammel the team.  I would think pursuing a younger AL up-and-comer would be better.  The M's haven't had a lot of recent success with NL'ers.
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Sore Feet
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PostFri Apr 09, 2004 12:16 am 
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They fixed the hitters eye last year.  I don't think they necessarily need to go out and get a Barry Bonds or a Jason Giambi, what we really need is someone else like Ichiro, who can hit .330+ for the season, and drive in a lot of runs.  Soriano could do that.  I'm sure he's not gonna be thrilled about being dealed from a team practically guaranteed to get into the playoffs to a team guaranteed to finish last place, so I think Seattle would be smart to try to pick him up by the deadline.

Regarding the changes in the off season.  Yeah, the defense got a little worse.  But the offense got notably better all around.  Since we just played arguably the best team in the AL, it's not gonna show as well right now, but it's definitely improved all around:

2003 stats
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............... G  AB  R  H  2B  3B  HR  RBI  TB  BB  SO  SB  CS  OBP  SLG  AVG
Cameron: 147  534  74  135  31  5  18  76  230  70  137  17  7  .344  .431  .253
Ibanez:     157  608  95  179  33  5  18  90  276  49  81  8  4  .345  .454  .294
Both hit the same number of triples and homeruns last year.

Cirillo: 87  258  24  53  11  0  2  23  70  24  32  1  1  .284  .271  .205
Spiezio: 158  521  69  138  36  7  16  83  236  46  66  6  3  .326  .453  .265

Guillen: 109  388  63  107  19  3  7  52  153  52  64  4  4 . 359  .394  .276
Aurellia: 129  505  65  140  26  1  13  58  207  36  82  2  2  .325  .410  .277

I don't really see replacing Guillen with Aurilia as an improvement, more of an across the board trade - except that Guillen is younger.  I'd have rather kept Guillen, but I suppose the Aurilia's experience and the fact that he's batted over .300 in the past is a good thing.

Spiezio has better numbers in proportion to Cirillo when the proportion of games played is taken into account.

In the end, it's not an Anaheim style improvement, but it's an improvement.  Jolbert Cabrera should help out too (he better start tomorrow, Looper wasn't exactly the kind of pitcher you just toss aside).

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