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LittleHikerMom
Mom to a little girl



Joined: 08 Jul 2004
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Location: Everett, WA
LittleHikerMom
Mom to a little girl
PostMon Aug 23, 2004 10:03 pm 
Oh, i've known for years that its not okay to cut switchbacks. I learned plenty about erosion at a young age. 6th grade actually. They taught us a lot about what the bad effects of logging were, and how the soil was washed into streams and killed salmon and other fish. Some of the effects of polution and erosion were that the actual "scent" of the stream was changed, which confused the poor fish and they didn't know where to return to spawn. Yeah, it's pretty bad. So yes, i've known that it's not a good idea to cut switchbacks. Switchbacks are there to make the trail easier anyway... they make the elevation gain a bit more gradual than going straight up. Of course I also know you shouldn't pick the flowers. That's not nice. I've known that stepping in meadows is a bad idea since I was a kid. I was always in fact afraid of stepping off trail for fear of getting in trouble. lol. I've always known that grass is sensitive... anywhere. You can even learn this in the city... they have signs that say "keep off the grass". As a kid, my parents would yell at me if I laid my slip n slide out on the front lawn... as it would smash the grass... and eventually cause it to die if the slide was left out long enough. Mountain varieties are of course much more fragile. I've grown up watching movies like "Fern Gully" and such. I think i'm more of the environmentalist of my family. lol. I used to come home from school as a kid and go "Mom and Dad! Did you know that such and such does this to the environment?!" My dad once asked me if I was going to become one of those "environmentalists". lol.

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Rich Baldwin
Mister Eddie



Joined: 22 Dec 2001
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Rich Baldwin
Mister Eddie
PostMon Aug 23, 2004 10:53 pm 
I learned LNT principles from friends and books (Spring & Manning, Burton, Freedom of the Hills, etc.). The difficulty is reaching folk whose friends are uneducated about LNT and who don't read hiker literature.

Was you ever bit by a dead bee?
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salish
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Joined: 17 Dec 2001
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salish
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PostTue Aug 24, 2004 9:14 am 
MCaver wrote:
marylou wrote:
Heck, we could have a whole forum dedicated to Stewardship and backcountry ethics! biggrin.gif
This is the kind of hiking/outdoor political forum I'm on board with. up.gif
This is one of the best ideas I've heard in a long time. Karen - great words. I'm in total agreement with you.

My short-term memory is not as sharp as it used to be. Also, my short-term memory's not as sharp as it used to be.
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jenjen
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Joined: 30 Jun 2003
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Location: Sierra stylin
jenjen
Moderatrix
PostTue Aug 24, 2004 10:57 am 
A lot of the problem I see with people not following the LNT principals is that they don't know how. If you don't know what a cat-hole is, how can you dig one? If you've never heard of dispersed camping, how can you do it? A lot of this seems like common sense to those of us who have been backpacking for years, but its not common sense to those who are new to the experience. I can't count the number of times I've seen food bags hung just 3 feet off the ground right next to someone's tent. Those people aren't idiots, they were told to hang their food and they did. Nobody told them how high to hang the food and where to hang it. I've seen alot more how-to postings on the trailhead signs, I think we need to see more of that. Most people I've seen just blow past the sign without stopping, but some folks do stop and read everything there. Even getting to just 1 new person a day is worthwhile.

If life gives you melons - you might be dyslexic
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Allison
Feckless Swooner



Joined: 17 Dec 2001
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Allison
Feckless Swooner
PostTue Aug 24, 2004 11:38 am 
So we get a lot of new people here at this site looking for info. What can we do to give them a few pointers?

www.allisonoutside.com follow me on Twitter! @AllisonLWoods
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LittleHikerMom
Mom to a little girl



Joined: 08 Jul 2004
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Location: Everett, WA
LittleHikerMom
Mom to a little girl
PostTue Aug 24, 2004 11:51 am 
jenjen wrote:
I can't count the number of times I've seen food bags hung just 3 feet off the ground right next to someone's tent. Those people aren't idiots, they were told to hang their food and they did. Nobody told them how high to hang the food and where to hang it.
Wow... that's actually kind-of funny. I read in a book that it's between 2 trees, downwind of camp, and 8+ feet off the ground. I think that makes enough sense to me! I wouldn't want bears and other critters smelling food from across my camp and trampling me to get to it... downwind definately sounds logical. And then the height... well you want it high enough that the bear isn't gonna try to get it. lol. I've learned a lot of stuff by just reading books. I read westerns and pioneer stories. And then i've also read other books in which the characters just so happend to be out backpacking. Besides knowing stuff about backpacking... i've learned stuff about tracking in my books... and also about how to avoid being seen by pursuers. What can I say? One of my favorite characters is a wells fargo special agent!

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Backpacker Joe
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Joined: 16 Dec 2001
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Backpacker Joe
Blind Hiker
PostTue Aug 24, 2004 1:07 pm 
I've been pretty lucky with some investments that I made years ago. It looks like it is going to allow me to retire. I say that because for years I've thought about starting a company that would center on taking inner city kids into the mountains. Dante originally had the idea. I think that if you could expose inner city youth to the out of doors you could really change their lives. I think change their lives in a very positive way too. Get a couple one ton Ford vans and take out 3 to 5 to 7 kids at a time. I could supply everything for them to be able to experience the mountains in a very positive way. I think you could teach them a lot. If you gave them that kind of experience it could offer them something positive to channel their lives towards. I know what the out of doors have done for my life. TB

"If destruction be our lot we must ourselves be its author and finisher. As a nation of freemen we must live through all time or die by suicide." — Abraham Lincoln
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LittleHikerMom
Mom to a little girl



Joined: 08 Jul 2004
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Location: Everett, WA
LittleHikerMom
Mom to a little girl
PostTue Aug 24, 2004 1:09 pm 
Hmm... what to take on your first hike... Raingear! lol.gif

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jenjen
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jenjen
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PostTue Aug 24, 2004 2:09 pm 
godlygirl wrote:
jenjen wrote:
I can't count the number of times I've seen food bags hung just 3 feet off the ground right next to someone's tent. Those people aren't idiots, they were told to hang their food and they did. Nobody told them how high to hang the food and where to hang it.
Wow... that's actually kind-of funny.
You're right, GG, it is funny. They had the food right at nose level for a bear. But they didn't know better until it was pointed out to them.

If life gives you melons - you might be dyslexic
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frankm3
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frankm3
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PostTue Aug 24, 2004 2:13 pm 
It seems that a sticky titled "general hiking and newcomer information" with links (examples, not intended to be all-inclusive) to: -'Leave No Trace' ethics, -proper food hanging technique, -bear aware information, -and Mountaineers (or similar listing) of 10 essentials ...would fit the bill pretty well for this purpose.

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Karen
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Karen
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PostTue Aug 24, 2004 2:53 pm 
I have an acquaintance who takes troubled teens into the mountains on weekend backpacks. Many of them have never been in the mountains before and some of them are so frightened by the wilderness that they cry. Karen

stay together, learn the flowers, go light - from Turtle Island, Gary Snyder
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salish
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salish
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PostTue Aug 24, 2004 3:25 pm 
[quote= I say that because for years I've thought about starting a company that would center on taking inner city kids into the mountains. Dante originally had the idea. I think that if you could expose inner city youth to the out of doors you could really change their lives. I think change their lives in a very positive way too. I think you could teach them a lot. If you gave them that kind of experience it could offer them something positive to channel their lives towards. I know what the out of doors have done for my life. TB[/quote] Don't know if this helps or not, but the local Sierra Club chapter has a program in place called the Inner City Outings for taking inner city kids on backpacking trips, as well as many other outdoors activities. One of my coworkers has been involved in the past. Maybe this could help you structure a program of your own. Here's his message and a link to the local chapter's ICO program: The local Sierra Club chapter has the Inner City Outings program, which takes kids from local schools on a range of outdoor activities. ICO works with a bunch of schools from elementary to high school, but the backpacking trips are usually only done with the older kids. Most of the outings are seasonally- and age-appropriate day trips. Sledding with little kids, x-country skiing with older kids, day hikes, canoeing, etc. The older kids usually end the season in May-June with overnight trips. I'm taking a sabbatical from ICO right now since I'm so busy with my own kids. They recruit for adult outings leaders every fall in mid-Sept, so the new flyer should be out soon. here's the web page: http://ico.sierraclub.org/ico/seattle/public/faq.asp

My short-term memory is not as sharp as it used to be. Also, my short-term memory's not as sharp as it used to be.
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Allison
Feckless Swooner



Joined: 17 Dec 2001
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Location: putting on my Nikes before the comet comes
Allison
Feckless Swooner
PostTue Aug 24, 2004 3:28 pm 
I think this is a terrific idea, but just to clarify, this is not the intent of the thread, so much as to find ways to educate people who are already backcountry users.

www.allisonoutside.com follow me on Twitter! @AllisonLWoods
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salish
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salish
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PostTue Aug 24, 2004 3:37 pm 
marylou wrote:
I thik this is a terrific idea, but just to clarify, this is not the intent of the thread, so much as to find ways to educate people who are already backcountry users.
Agree with you there, I was just responding to BPJ's post. Probably should have PM'd him. Keep it up. -C

My short-term memory is not as sharp as it used to be. Also, my short-term memory's not as sharp as it used to be.
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Allison
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Allison
Feckless Swooner
PostTue Aug 24, 2004 3:39 pm 
Perhaps. If someone is interested in grabbing the bull by the horns and getting some disadvantaged kids out in the woods, well by all means, do it. I just don't want to muddy the discussion too much. Maybe we could start a new thread for this new idea?

www.allisonoutside.com follow me on Twitter! @AllisonLWoods
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