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Lead Dog
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PostWed Aug 25, 2004 4:51 pm 
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Ditto to Jimmymac agree.gif Didn't it take the Press Expedition 6 months to go up the Elwah then down the Quinalt? What does it take now 3-4 easy days?
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LittleHikerMom
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PostWed Aug 25, 2004 11:11 pm 
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Yeah, I heard mother nature took Kennedy hot springs away. I was thinkin of goin up there some time... but i guess not now.
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sarbar
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PostThu Aug 26, 2004 6:25 am 
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I know Marylou will hate this but:
For all the damage man can do in a lifetime, Mother Nature can do the same in one day.
One volcano blowing can wipe out an entire area, or one storm can do the same.
Anyone been up to Rainier this week? The rain this week has blown out almost every bridge, mudslides, slumps, etc. Kinda like last October. Hmmmm, with the weather we have been having it was either that or forest fires this year.....
Having said that...the year 1980 had a LOT less people living in Wa state. The 80' and 90's saw a huge boom in people moving here. That is a simple fact. Even I as a kid (born 1973) can rember the valleys way out in the boonies where the hippies and hillbillies lived, where they had outhouses and no electricity until the mid 80's when houses started getting built. Those valleys were gorgeous, but proggressive and people are unstoppable. It doesn't mean they are not gorgeous still, they are just changed.
What we saw as youths, will not remain that way. It will be similar, but never the same. Even if humans don't come, Mother Nature will change it for you.
Memories are good to have....but don't get too attached to them.

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https://trailcooking.com/ Eat well on the trail.
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Slugman
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Slower than ever
PostThu Aug 26, 2004 7:25 am 
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Stefan, if there weren't clearcuts at these few special places, the trailhead would just be farther down the valley, with a longer woods walk to the high country. I'd take that any day. I'm not against all clearcuts.

Lead dog, the Press expedition crossed the Olypics during the middle of winter, and it was the worst winter in living memory at that time. Plus, they used the "Lewis and Clark" method of bringing thousands of pounds of gear.

Borank, the argument is not outdated. Perhaps you've heard of the Wild Sky wilderness? Why do so many people care about it being implemented? Are these people who have never been hiking? Maybe some are.

I also posed the question of camp hosts or a ranger presence to reduce unecessary damage through improper use at heavily-used places like the Robins.

Also, who likes/hates my suggestion of "meadow maintenance", meaning more restoration work at over-used places? Would you pay a fee when visiting the Robins if all the money, plus some volunteer labor, went into restoring that area?  Maybe we need a "Washington Meadows Association" to help with that.

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"There is a pleasure in the pathless woods, There is a rapture on the lonely shore. There is society where none intrudes, By the deep sea, and music in its roar: I love not man the less, but nature more..."  Childe Harold
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solohiker
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PostThu Aug 26, 2004 7:27 am 
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Sarbar: are you saying we ought to just trample away since destruction is inevitable anyway?

Just to be clear, that was not the point of my post.
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sarbar
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Living The Dream
PostThu Aug 26, 2004 7:52 am 
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No,no, Solohiker..my point is that while we worry about the damage we humans do, there is always a chance mothe rnature will butt kick us even worse.
As more humans move into an area, the damage will increase, as more visit. The days of not seeing other humans in the wilds is becoming numbered every year. You have to go farther and farther to not see anyone. We Wa citizens love our outdoors. The damage to our wild lands is going to occur, due to all the happy boots and running shoes out there.

Karen, ChristyE was knocked off of her Wonderland hike this week due to the rains. Quite a few hikers were stranded in Longmire, waiting it out. She listed to me yesterday morning a lot of the damage. Carbon River and West Side roads are closed also. As far as I know the Mowhich river trail bridges are gone, as is the West Fork she was told (she was turned around by a ranger Jeri at Indian Henry's). Kautz Creek's bridge was under water, as was Devil's Dream campsites. Other bridges were said by other hikers to have been blown out.
She also heard that there has been damage done out in Indian Bar and between Nickel Creek and Longmire.

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https://trailcooking.com/ Eat well on the trail.
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kleet
meat tornado



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meat tornado
PostThu Aug 26, 2004 8:00 am 
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MRNP trail report

MRNP road report

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A fuxk, why do I not give one?
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Stefan
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PostThu Aug 26, 2004 8:01 am 
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Slugman wrote:
Stefan, if there weren't clearcuts at these few special places, the trailhead would just be farther down the valley, with a longer woods walk to the high country. I'd take that any day. I'm not against all clearcuts.

Then are you for the gate at Dingford Creek up the Mid Fork? (I know not ALL clearcuts....just some.)

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Art is an adventure.
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sarbar
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PostThu Aug 26, 2004 8:04 am 
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Kleet, the Trail reports are out of date. If one is heading out that way, do call the rangers-though knowing the excellent rangers, they will work hard this weekend to get bridges back in, if they can.

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https://trailcooking.com/ Eat well on the trail.
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borank
Lake dork



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Lake dork
PostThu Aug 26, 2004 8:23 am 
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SM, FWIW, I did not say outdated, I said merely dated.  While their may be new areas under consideration for wilderness designation, ML's original post on this thread was regarding R.b.n Lks which have been protected for 3 decades and are taking a pounding.

SB, only an idiot would believe the increase in area population would not lead to increased usage of the alpine country.  The Puget Sound population has doubled in your lifetime, but the usage of the alpine country has increases out of all proportion with population growth.  One could wish the ALW usage had only doubled since the 70's!

Turning back the clock 20, 30, 40 years is out of the question.  But preserving for as long as possible the less spoiled and still unspoiled spots does not seem an unreasonable aim.  Here is where the younger generation can benefit by listening to the older generation, there is example after example of how areas have declined after various changes (roads, improved trails, publications, ...).  Listen and learn.  Try to look past the nostalgia and see the trend.  We can't go back, but we can try to change the trend.
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Quark
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PostThu Aug 26, 2004 8:59 am 
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sarbar wrote:
As more humans move into an area, the damage will increase, as more visit. The days of not seeing other humans in the wilds is becoming numbered every year. You have to go farther and farther to not see anyone.

Sarbar, this is the 2nd or 3rd time you mentioned having to go a long ways in order to be alone.  One post you mentioned  you have to go 15 miles out in order to get away - (I can't remember the name of the thread, but it was the woman from California wanting advice on hiking solo).

I don't find that to be the case, at least in places where I have been going over the years.  Often mine is the only vehicle at the TH, and from day One on through the rest of the trip sometimes I see no one, sometimes only one or two people, and I may only be in 7 or 8 miles.

Is MRNP and ONP really that crowded?  Then it's no wonder you see so many so-called "tourons."

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"...Other than that, the post was more or less accurate."

Bernardo, NW Hikers' Bureau Chief of Reporting
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Allison
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PostThu Aug 26, 2004 9:02 am 
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I'm afraid I can't see any useful parallel between the work of Nature and poor stewardship by humankind. When I look at the destruction from, say, the floods of last fall, I am awed by the force of nature.

When I look at the Rampart Lakes and see a spectacularly beutiful place that looks "threadbare" and "shopworn" it does not inspire awe in me, only disappointment.

Comparisons like this merely make the point that we need to find ways to raise the consciousness of our fellow backcountry users.

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www.allisonoutside.com

follow me on Twitter! @AllisonLWoods
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sarbar
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PostThu Aug 26, 2004 9:10 am 
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Yes, ONP and MRNP are very crowded in prime season. Even ONF is very crowded. Now go on say a monday or wendsay it is much better. Go up to the Baker area? Yowza! Even midweek many TH's are hopping.
Now, I do get out and see no one, as I like to hike midweek many times, and say Ford and me wil be out 6 or so miles, but, usually I will see others, right around lunch time. (I usually hit the trail around 7 am so we can have some quiet time)
We have a lot of people who love the outdoors out here!
What I have noticed is that bad roads don't stop people either. About the only thing that does is closing the roads and making it much longer to hike in, making it an overnighter or more.

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https://trailcooking.com/ Eat well on the trail.
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solohiker
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PostThu Aug 26, 2004 9:30 am 
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marylou wrote:
When I look at the destruction from, say, the floods of last fall, I am awed by the force of nature.

When I look at the Rampart Lakes and see a spectacularly beutiful place that looks "threadbare" and "shopworn" it does not inspire awe in me, only disappointment.

Comparisons like this merely make the point that we need to find ways to raise the consciousness of our fellow backcountry users.

Bingo. THAT was my point, which Sarbar missed. Freaks of nature out of our control (as well as the growing population and popularity of recreational hiking) make it all the more important we take what steps we can to preserve sensitive areas that are special, rather than throw up one's arms with a sigh in the name of progress or otherwise.

Quote:
Some things are precious. Keep them that way as long as you/we can. Mother Nature can take them away whenever she wants.

maybe it makes more sense to change the order of the above statements:

Some things are precious. Mother Nature can take them away whenever she wants. (Our job is to) Keep them that way (precious) as long as you/we can.
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sarbar
Living The Dream



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Living The Dream
PostThu Aug 26, 2004 9:36 am 
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Ahem, Solohiker, I didn't say we should give up. Never would I say that. My point is simply one cannot pine away for the days that have been. That is all I am saying.
Keep your memories, but realize, that every year, what you once sherished will change. For better or worse.

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https://trailcooking.com/ Eat well on the trail.
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