[Chief Paulina]

I am opposed to the trail fee on principal more than anything else. God knows I can afford them (at least for now). In the last few years I've been going where they ain't...There is still a lot of interesting country out there. I'm thinking that I'll be dead or close to it by the time they post fee signs at those trailheads. Ahhhhhhh Progress.....

[kleet]

It all starts to add up. Here's a sample of the various fees for "getting out" in the great outdoors (I've paid some or all of these in the past): $30 NW Forest Pass soon to be replaced by $85 to $100 "America the Beautiful" pass to park at USFS trailheads $3 per person per day for hiking in the Enchantments $50 Natural Investment Permit (day-use parking in a State Park) $7.00 non-refundable reservation fee (reservations to camp at State Park) $15.00 Standard campsite fee per night at State Park $10.00 Additional vehicle at campsite fee $21 Sno-Park Seasonal Permit (parking lots plowed by State DOT) $21 Sno-Park Special Groomed Trails Permit $10.95 Washington Vehicle Use Permit (parking @ 200 access sites managed by WDFW) $21.90 fishing license $19.71 saltwater fishing license $10.95 shellfish license $3 crab endorsement (and I have been endorsed by numerous crabs over the years) $61.32 deer/elk tag $32.85 small game license $39.42 upland bird license $11 duck stamp $100 Marymoor Park annual parking pass (or $1/ day) $30.00 Mount Rainier Annual Pass $30.00 Mount Rainier annual climbing permit I'm sure there's a few I've missed...

[Quark]

[Newt]

Resist much, obey little. Walt Whitman As the feds make their cutbacks to balance the budget, agencies start to come up short. When they come up short, folks are let go, services are cut and on and on. So in order to keep some things going, the fees are charged to help maintain things. Trails, toilets, roads etc. It's not nice but I'm not sure that if things were free that much would be done. I have a feeling that groups like WTA have more to do with maintaining trails than the FS. I have no problem paying for what I use as long as the $ goes back into what I spent my $ on. Course we all already know this. Newt

[Stefan]

Here are the things I would cut from trailheads: Toilet paper. You bring your own. No replacement of picnic tables. Cut down on all the signage at the trailheads. Just a sign that says this is the trail, and no fires above 5000 feet or within 1/2 mile of water sources. No new toilet facilities. No new parking facilities.

[Chief Paulina]

Everytime I read this thread, a song starts in my head that will not leave. Was it Joanie Mitchell that wrote "Paved paradise, put up a parking lot"?

[polecatjoe]

Yup, Joni Mitchell- also wrote a very topical song: I awoke today and found the frost perched on the town It hovered in a frozen sky, then it gobbled summer down When the sun turns traitor cold and shivering trees are standing in a naked row I get the urge for going but I never seem to go I get the urge for going When the meadow grass is turning brown Summertime is falling down and winter is closing in I had me a man in summertime He had summer-colored skin And not another girl in town My darling's heart could win But when the leaves fell trembling down Bully winds did rub their faces in the snow He got the urge for going And I had to let him go He got the urge for going When the meadow grass was turning brown Summertime was falling down and winter was closing in The warriors of winter they gave a cold triumphant shout And all that stays is dying and all that lives is getting out See the geese in chevron flight flapping and racing on before the snow They've got the urge for going, they've got the wings to go They get the urge for going When the meadow grass is turning brown Summertime is falling down and winter is closing in I'll ply the fire with kindling and pull the blankets to my chin and I'll lock the vagrant winter out and bolt my wandering in I'd like to call back summertime and have her stay jut another month or so She's got the urge for going and I guess she'll have to go And she get the urge for going when meadow grass is turning brown All her empires are falling down winter's closing in

[Newt]

Yup. You don't know what you've got till it's gone..... Newt

[jimmymac]

[Sore Feet]

[polarbear]

It turns out the bill for which the proposed Federal Lands Recreation Enhancement Act is riding on has not been voted on yet due to a discovery in the clause in another area of the bill that would have allowed members of Congress to peruse individual tax returns. A new version of the bill is scheduled to be voted on Dec. 6. Here is an aritcle on the proposed new tax from yesterday's Methow Valley Daily News.

[jackchinook]

thanks for posting that article, Polarbear. I just had a couple beers with Patrick (the author of that article) the other night in Winthrop. We talked about this very subject and, after talking about the future of salmon habitat protection all morning with coworkers, I'm planning on going to home, curling up and dying. In the west we have what, 80% of public lands and 99% of the country's salmon catch....not to mention a variety of goodies that the rest of our country lacks. Yet it's Dub'ya's administration that's deciding how to manage our salmon runs and habitat and some congressman in Ohio, where there are no public lands, who's making our decisions about how to fund our recreation by inserting riders into bills for us!!! What's wrong with this picture?

[hikermike]

What I'd like to know is, who the ACTUAL author is that inserts these little clauses into these bills. For instance, who decidied the fine should be $5,000? Is the crime rreally that onerous or the outcome of disobediance so catastrophic so as to require that for compliance? Did a specific Congressman debate the charges or which Congressional aid came up with it. Did the Congreesmen who actually submitted the bill really study it? Was it a Westerner ? I heard about the spending bill having that clause put in the bill about allowing a specific Senator, ( aRepublican by the way) to review private income tax returns? Whose office did this and why? (Obviously, it's to help the Republicans {actually, the Neo-Cons} obtain permanent control of the government, Karl Rowe's personal quest.) No, I don't favor the trail pass, I find it double taxation and very elitist. When I was growing up, the outdoors provided our poor family with just about our only main source of diversion and and inspiration through some bleak times to keep us out of trouble. I think of all the families with border line lifestyles who's kids will find their only recreation to be sitting around playing video games and smart talking to each other about who thy're going to do in to make their mark on the establishment. But then, lets keep the "riff raff" out of our playground.

[Chief Paulina]

Perhaps this will answer some of your questions. Editorial - CantonRep (an OHIO Newspaper) Friday, November 26, 2004 Hate the deficit, love that pork! We hate the growing federal budget deficit, but not so much as to hate the pork that Ralph Regula can barrel and ship to Stark County. Contradictions are a part of life, and congressional production of good works back in the district is a part of how the U.S. government serves constituents. Congressman Regula has provided an early Christmas present. A federal spending bill approved by Congress includes $1.9 million for development of the Mills Industrial Park in southern Canton. It contains a million for a traffic problem in Hartville, a half-million for the water treatment plant in Canton, and nearly a million each for the county’s two biggest hospitals, Aultman and Mercy; neither one will feel favored over the other. Regula also has secured $1 million each for two YMCAs to be developed in western Stark County. Regula, who has been representing Stark County and the rest of the 16th Ohio Congressional District since 1973, is one of the most powerful congressmen in Washington. His seniority and leadership position within the majority Republican Party give him the ability to provide all sorts of pleasant surprises for the folks back home. That’s how the system works in Washington. Seniority and majority make Stark County more worthy than a hundred other communities in the nation that could use the same measures of federal largess. Someday Stark County will not be in this position; another community will be. Those who complain about this system can stand outside at night and bay at the moon, for all the good it will do them.”

[mgd]

That almost makes me sick to my stomach. Let's see, Regula can't find enough money for trails (and the district he is in isn't even affected by his trail park pass bill), but can find plenty of money for his own state.