[catwoman]

I wanted to say that, after all this time on wta's trail talk, and here, and the years of enjoying the mountains in general.... I'd never involved myself with volunteering for any trail maintenance with wta (or anyone else for that matter) until a week and a half ago. Part of the reason I signed up was to earn my free trail park pass. But you know what.... I've gone twice already and oddly enough, I've enjoyed it so much, I plan to continuing volunteering! Just thought I'd share that with you all.

[Allison]

If you enjoy using primitive hand tools in your spare time, trail maintenance is the way to go!!

[Treader]

Much of the trail maintenance doesn't require strength. Let the tools do the hard work, no reason to bust your back or burst your hernia. Just let the crewleader know your limitations and there is plenty to do.

[catwoman]

I always thought trail maintenance looked like too hard of work for me and no fun at all. But now that I've done it, it's shown me I can do alot. And I kinda like those primitive tools! It's fun to build and make things nice! And it's always fun to meet new nice folks who share a love for the outdoors.

[janders]

With WTA, you really put in the amount of work that you want to. They really stress to work at your own pace, do what you enjoy doing and don't overdo it. It's a kick in the pants! And hikers who pass are almost always very gracious about saying thanks.

[salish]

My hiking buddy has talked about us doing trail work with WTA for the past couple of seasons, but I keep procrastinating because I have a badly herniated disk in my back and manual labor just kills me. I know it sounds wimpy, but it's true. It's crazy, too, because I can carry a heavy pack (although I'm trying to go really light) for miles and miles and suffer no back pain, but if I bend over to tie my shoe I can start the spasms almost immediately. I can do manual labor - a bit, at my own pace, but it's scary. I'd like to give something back but I've always been concerned that I would become a casualty out there and perhaps a pain in the side to the trail crew. This thread makes me think that maybe I can contribute something. Are there any members here that have bad backs who also work on WTA trail crews? Cliff

[JimK]

Let me give another point of view. (Entering into rant mode). I have a great deal of admiration for some of the trail work done by the forest service and WTA. I also feel that a large part of it is at best wasted energy and at worst harmful to the trails. As an example, I will use the Pratt Lake trail. 7 or 8 years ago it was a great trail with several useful small bridges and culverts in the first 1 1/4 miles. There was a small mud patch 100' up the trail and a small section of gravelly rocks a 100' after that. Even in the rainiest seasons the rest of the first 1 1/4 miles was perfectly dry. Since then WTA goes out each Spring with a big crew to put more and more useless and destructive water diversions into this trail. Last fall I came down the trail and counted the number from the big creek crossing to the trailhead (1 1/4 miles). Counting all man made water diversions I came up with 182. All but about 10 of them do no good. In several places the uphill bank was torn apart to put in long tranches. The natural growth was destroyed. Erosion is now present where none was not previously found. Gently graded dry trail now is a series of "steps". At the top of each step is a puddle that did not previously exist. Each year they put another water bar in the middle of each existing one. There is a 15' long bridge spanning a "creek" which is 2' wide at Spring high water. This is all a tremendous waste of money and time. Several weeks ago I hiked up Davis Peak. In the 2 years since I was last there changes have occurred. In the first mile there are now dozens of trenches cut deep into the trail. These are all at places where there is no erosion. The trail is covered with many years of old needles. No erosing was present. It is not difficult to see where water runs on a trail in the Spring and Fall. These are not the places the water bars are placed. The Forest Service and WTA need to check out trails in the rainy season and only schedule water diversion work where there is water on trails. Tearing up good dry trails and using scarce resources to do it is nuts!!!! I would be glad to volunteer with WTA but only if the work done is productive and not destructive. Log cutting, brushing, and necessary water diversion is a good thing. My gripe is with spending time to do work that does no good and often is harmful. I have sent WTA several email messages outling these points and have never received a reply. In the past I went to one of their board meetings regarding a different matter and I guess I should try it again. This subject has hit a bit of a raw nerve with me. I want to emphasize that I appreciate the volunteers but have a real disagreement with the policies. I know I am not alone as I have traded emails with a WTA crew leader who felt much of his mandated efforts were a huge waste of his time. (Climbing down off soapbox and exiting rant mode).

[catwoman]

You know, I have to agree that I don't like some of their "improvements". For example, I can bitch and moan all day long about those obnoxious steps that only serve to be a problem for knees. And even the work parties I've been on could really have been put to better use elsewhere. But I HAVE enjoyed my participation with them. If I understand correctly, the WTA gets their instructions on what's to be done from the USFS. I wonder if writing to the USFS on trail maintenance suggestions would help.

[Backpacker Joe]

Look, with all due respect to you all who volunteer your time.... I am neutral to any trail maintenance! I know that sounds crazy to you, but I rarely use the forest serviced trails anyway! Certainly, if the F/S wants trails maintained they should use volunteers or pay out of their own budget, NOT ask for MORE money through user fees! I think the volunteer program is great, use it for the very populated trails. I have NO problem climbing over/under tree falls that litter FISHERMAN trails! Or just making my own way. Tom B

[Quark]

BPJ, other people need to be considered - a family gets turned off by little Bobby's twisted ankle or a tooth-breaking face plant on a rock or devils club spikes in the eye, or swept downstream while trying to ford a creek - and guess what: the Great Outdoors has lost advocacy, and your littered fisherman's trail becomes Trend West property; 150 acres of condos (I don't know why anyone would like to see littered trails, but to each his own, I guess). The families who have a bad experience may never take their kids out again, and the kids don't have the outdoors in their hearts when they grow up to become voting adults. There is a trail for everyone - let others have their fun too. And those that refuse to pay for a park pass - enjoy your hike while you pass the volunteer work crew (which does cost money), and know the nice new outhouse your tightwad butt is sitting in on the Suiattle River trail was partially paid for by other peoples' purchase of the pass.

[Backpacker Joe]

Hey, no disrespect ment. I didnt ASK for trail maintenance to stop! I understand the need for some of them! Although I am NOT for creating a system the allows EVERYONE to use the trails! There has been a push (EVIL political correctness) to make it such that anyone can access these areas! That's plain nonsence! Life isnt, nor has it ever been fair! There are those that by the unfortunate act of whomever arent able to use the outdoors. I'm sorry (been there too) but life has never been fair. You can pave the bloody wilderness and expect any kind of wilderness!

[-lol-]

[Allison]

It's my understanding that the FS and WTA work together on defining TM objectives. FWIW I tend to see a lot of trails egregiously OVER-maintained, and a lot UNDER-maintained. What I want to see in TM is minimal blow-down work and water drainage improvements, minimal for most, and a little higher for those trails popular with families and horses. What I tend to see looks like WTA TM testpieces (Lake 22) or popular trails with serious blow-down problems (Waptus River Trail along Waptus Lake). Last weekend Randy and I had a chat with a horse packer guy who was active in his horse packer club. They have done a lot of TM in conjunction with the FS just like WTA, and the club is getting their local district's TM fund disbursement info for TM in this "Fee Demo" era to make sure that the $ is going where they want it to go. If WTA is not doing this they should, and they should publish it in the magazine and on the website. TM is being done to improve our trails, and we as users and citizens have not only a right but a responsibility to be involved in deciding where it's valuable and where it's not.

[JimK]

The forest service is constantly telling us that they do not have enough resources to maintain existing trails. What I want is for them to spend their limited resources to cut logs, brush trails, and open clogged culverts. 10 volunteers spending 8 hours = 80 hours. Currently that is used to dig trenches across dry trails and accomplishes zero. That same 80 hours could brush out miles of trails. My writing letters to WTA has so far accomplished absolutely nothing. They will not even acknowledge them. Perhaps if many of us wrote at the same time they would at least listen.

[Dslayer]

First of all, thanks to those of you who put in the time to do trail work, I admire you for your commitment and effort. I'm with JimK,though, in a sense--just what does the NFS have to do but maintain access and trails-I don't mean to be disrespectful of NFS personnel, I just ran into a gung ho young guy who maintains the trail and campsites around Mystic Lake in Montana, he works 10 days on, he's camped in there, and then gets 4 days off and he works his rear end off. I just think if trail maintenance were a priority and driving around in a green truck were less a priority that a heck of a lot more useful work could get done. The NFS has become just another bad Federal bureauacracy, hardly accountable to anyone, wasteful of resources that it has, and bawling for more money.