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kleet
meat tornado
Joined: 06 Feb 2002
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Location: O no they dih ent |
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kleet
meat tornado
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 Sat Nov 06, 2004 2:40 pm |
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| Loggerman wrote: | | And I would hope that you come back and tell us the rest of the story with this. As of right now you have tarnished hunters in a public forum without knowing the slightest of what happend. |
I'd like to hear the outcome as well. But before you jump down his throat, LM, he never said it was hunters doing the shooting.
A fuxk, why do I not give one?
A fuxk, why do I not give one?
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Lagerman
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Joined: 07 Mar 2004
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Location: Crab'n on the Hood Canal |
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Lagerman
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Sat Nov 06, 2004 2:44 pm |
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| Quote: | | Speaking of hunting ethic that sure didn't happen this morning. Some fool shot off about two dozen rounds or more in the field below our house. Either a really bad shot or a massacre. Neither very comforting. |
The imply is there(purposly or not). I wont get into an discussion about that.
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Lagerman
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Lagerman
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Sat Nov 06, 2004 2:48 pm |
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And I aint jumping down his throat. When I do that every other WORD has the CAPS on when that happens. 
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Accraholic
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Joined: 06 Nov 2004
Posts: 25 | TRs | Pics
Location: Oregon |
I am an experienced hunter, and I concur with the guys who have stated that it would be a rare case indeed for any hunter to intentionally kill a sow with cubs. I am also a grown up with some common sense about me, and I really think adding even more regulations to the books is silly at best, and more likely a joke. You can't legislate common sense. It has been stated in this thread that the enforcement officer could make a judgement call on whether or not to cite an individual who unknowingly commits the offense mentioned...why would you put that burden on the officer in the first place?
Any individual who's own sense doesn't negate the need for this proposed new law is an unsavory sort who undoubtably wouldn't be swayed by some silly old law anyway.
I hope we can let the law enforcers alone to enforce the multitude of laws already on the books...
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Jeepasaurusrex
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Joined: 05 Oct 2004
Posts: 1079 | TRs | Pics
Location: Arlington, WA |
| frankm3 wrote: | | Thanks for sharing JR!
What a great example! As we're discussing, this is EXACTLY the kind of responsible hunting behavior that I am advocating.
How long do you think you waited until you saw the cubs?
In my experience, if you're quiet and don't surprise the animal, it's probably not going to split, right? Whenever I have been 'made' by a bear, they mostly split around here it seems; up in Alaska, they could have cared less.
If you have good wind and cover, my guess is you can watch the animal for as long as you'd like pretty much; when 'unbothered' they don't seem to do a whole lot of anything really fast if they don't have to. |
I watched the sow about 10min before the cubs appeared out of the brush. When I passed by them, the wind was blowing from them to me.. so it was in my favor. I ended up watching them eat and play for almost an hour, they didnt even know I was there. One of them days where I was wishing for a good camera with a telephoto lens. I had a good time just watching the lil balls of fir chase each other while the sow just continued eating (kinda like humans!). 
"I would like to see things from your point of view, but I cannot get my head that far up my butt"
"I would like to see things from your point of view, but I cannot get my head that far up my butt"
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Quark
Niece of Alvy Moore
Joined: 15 May 2003
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Quark
Niece of Alvy Moore
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Sun Nov 07, 2004 8:28 am |
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| mike wrote: | | Some fool shot off about two dozen rounds or more in the field below our house. Either a really bad shot or a massacre. Neither very comforting. Scared the heck out of the dogs. I'm headed down there right now to assess the carnage. |
You live in a densely populated area, or sparse? You'd think it'd be common sense not to shoot rounds where there's a likelihood of kids playing around or grannies picking medicinal herbs.
But common sense isn't very common despite what Accraholic and everyone else desparately wishes!
"...Other than that, the post was more or less accurate."
Bernardo, NW Hikers' Bureau Chief of Reporting
"...Other than that, the post was more or less accurate."
Bernardo, NW Hikers' Bureau Chief of Reporting
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mike
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Joined: 09 Jul 2004
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mike
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Sun Nov 07, 2004 12:45 pm |
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follow up:
Turns out the shooting yesterday dawn was at another neighbor's pond duck hunting. I know Frank is a responsible hunter. My neighbors with kids were very relieved to find out. Seems the air was just right yesterday morning to bounce the sound around to make it appear the shots were coming from the opposite direction and to be much louder. They didn't sound like a shotgun either. We are pretty used to the duck hunters but this was an entirely different sound and appeared coming from an area frequented by illegal hunters.
Anyway we live in a rural area (avg lot, 10ac+) but there are lots of new houses being built. Our property backs up to a watershed which was/is a popular hunting area even though illegal. So the new folks hidden in the trees are worried the hunters might not know they exist and their fears are valid. There have been recent incidents of houses being shot with deer rifles and my truck was broadsided by a shotgun while driving down the road. I have also been rained on by shotgun pellets while out in the yard, drunken neighbors shooting skeet. Then there are the low-lifes who dump their Tub-O-Guts in my back field. While I believe that there are many hunters, even most hunters, with common sense it appears the numbers are growing of those who have no sense at all or plain don't give a rat's ass. A big problem is the increased urbanization around here. There are just fewer and fewer safe places to hunt and in the meantime the deer population is out of control. Maybe it's time for better hunter education, i.e. pass a simple test like a driving test. e.g., Pick one: (picture of) a) house, b) cow, c) deer with antlers d) road sign.
ps, answer is (c) ;>)
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Lagerman
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Joined: 07 Mar 2004
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Location: Crab'n on the Hood Canal |
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Lagerman
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Sun Nov 07, 2004 12:56 pm |
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| Quote: | | But common sense isn't very common despite what Accraholic and everyone else desparately wishes! |
There are some dumbass people. Thats a given, no one is arguing that. What I think is that the people that have no damn idea about hunting or anything like that, then want to claim stuff (like they know) are the people without common sense too.
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Dslayer
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Joined: 02 Jan 2002
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Location: Home: Selah Work: Zillah |
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Dslayer
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Mon Nov 08, 2004 10:24 am |
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| Loggerman wrote: | | A deer you can only shoot if its a buck, or a bull with elk. Its extremly easy to tell if that buck has horns before you shoot it |
Well, that's an interesting statement-In most of E. Washington, bucks have to be 3 point or better, and sometimes, from distance, it can be difficult to discern the # of forks. I saw two big bucks with huge forks and nothing else this season-racks were so big and high with a huge spread it was almost impossible to believe that there wasn't a third tine or fork. I was within 150 yards of one of them in fading light and was just amazed and how these antlers could be so big and not be a legal buck-he and a smaller fork horn (of a size you expect fork horns to be-that was one of the problems-the contrast of the two) wandered off and up a ridge
and I got a pretty good look at them skylined and stopped and almost decided I could see a third point-but it occurred to me that if I didn't see a 3rd point when it was closer to me it sure as hell hadn't grown one in the 200 yards or so he had covered to the ridge top. I think there's a fair number of regressive bucks out in the Umptanum-bucks who have grown so old they don't grow the number of tines that they had during their prime-often are just big forked horns. The Umptanum was a permit only area until last season for about 6 years.
Another interesting case I heard of from during the elk rifle season. A kid shot a spike bull-which is legal. When he got to the elk, it was a 3 by 2, but in the preceeding rut (I imagine) all his tines had been knocked off-there followed an interesting discussion about the WDFW would view this. There have been some cases in which idiots have cut or shot the tines off illegally killed big bulls. I didn't here what that group decided to do.
The whole deal has to do with common sense. Obviously, not everyone has that-You can't truly legislate that, but in the case of 'rule' with sow and cubs and the 'rule' itself is common sense.
"The Second Amendment of the Bill of Rights is my concealed weapon permit."-Ted Nugent
"The Second Amendment of the Bill of Rights is my concealed weapon permit."-Ted Nugent
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Lagerman
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Lagerman
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Mon Nov 08, 2004 11:46 am |
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| Quote: | | Well, that's an interesting statement-In most of E. Washington, bucks have to be 3 point or better, and sometimes, from distance, it can be difficult to discern the # of forks. |
I apologize for not getting into each disctrict rules. If you cant tell horns before you shoot a deer, I suggest hunting in district better suiting your "ability"
| Quote: | | There have been some cases in which idiots have cut or shot the tines off illegally killed big bulls. |
Not matter what they do, If they get checked , there in trouble.
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salish
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salish
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Mon Nov 08, 2004 11:50 am |
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| Dslayer wrote: | | Well, that's an interesting statement-In most of E. Washington, bucks have to be 3 point or better, and sometimes, from distance, it can be difficult to discern the # of forks. |
I'll concur. I used to hunt the Thompson Ridge area just west of Twisp when the 3 points or better rule went in to effect on the mule deer and I had a heck of a time id'ing the proper bucks. I can see why deer hunters use extremely expensive binoculars to count the tines.
I'm not much of a big game hunter, mostly just hunt upland birds, but I think common sense applies to most hunting situations. Someone earlier in this thread mentioned this (Accraholic?) and I agree with him. I have been hunting for many years and have known many hunters, and I don't know anyone who would intentionally shoot a sow with cubs. I know there are those who do, though, and I'd wish them to receive the full wrath of the WDFW for this. But as LM states it can be pretty murky id'ing a female with cubs, so I don't know how you'd enforce it.
My short-term memory is not as sharp as it used to be.
Also, my short-term memory's not as sharp as it used to be.
My short-term memory is not as sharp as it used to be.
Also, my short-term memory's not as sharp as it used to be.
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Dslayer
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Location: Home: Selah Work: Zillah |
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Dslayer
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Mon Nov 08, 2004 3:15 pm |
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| Loggerman wrote: | | Well, that's an interesting statement-In most of E. Washington, bucks have to be 3 point or better, and sometimes, from distance, it can be difficult to discern the # of forks.
I apologize for not getting into each disctrict rules. If you cant tell horns before you shoot a deer, I suggest hunting in district better suiting your "ability" |
I'm assuming that's a general comment and not one made directly at me, if it is all I can say to that is "wow." When you refer to each 'district,' though, half the state is hardly a district and many Western GMU's have some sort of restriction as well. Telling the difference between antlered animals and non-antlered is no big deal, but the counting of points has made the deal a little more complicated.
| Quote: | | Not matter what they do, If they get checked , there in trouble. |
I've heard different things about how situations like this have been handled by WDFW game wardens-almost depends on the individual from the various stories I've heard.
"The Second Amendment of the Bill of Rights is my concealed weapon permit."-Ted Nugent
"The Second Amendment of the Bill of Rights is my concealed weapon permit."-Ted Nugent
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Accraholic
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Joined: 06 Nov 2004
Posts: 25 | TRs | Pics
Location: Oregon |
My point is that even though NOBODY wants people to shoot moma bears...The legal system is OVERFLOWING with problems more suited to the courtroom already...
Murderers
Rapists
Thieves
Drug dealers
This whole thing about "circumstances", and having the officer make the judgement call is just pure candy for the defense lawyers....whom are prolly going to be funded by me and you, not the cull who shot the bear.
So instead of badgering the biologists, and rulechangers, and then rewriting the regs, and then plugging up the docket in some busy courtroom(think of the paper)..........................................................Just go for a walk in the woods, and try to think about your happy place!
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Lagerman
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Lagerman
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Mon Nov 08, 2004 6:27 pm |
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| Quote: | | I'm assuming that's a general comment and not one made directly at me, if it is all I can say to that is "wow." When you refer to each 'district,' though, half the state is hardly a district and many Western GMU's have some sort of restriction as well. Telling the difference between antlered animals and non-antlered is no big deal, but the counting of points has made the deal a little more complicated. |
It was a general statement. Not directed at you.
I never said it wasnt harder to tell the differance. When you quoted me the first time I said its easy to tell if it has horns.
BUT
If you find it too hard, then dont hunt those areas.
I dont even know what we are talking about. Of course theres different districts. Of course its harder to tell how many branches there are, compared to weither there is any at all......we have been telling each other common sense things and things everyone knows......
So you lost me if your trying to make some point.
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kleet
meat tornado
Joined: 06 Feb 2002
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Location: O no they dih ent |
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kleet
meat tornado
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Tue Nov 09, 2004 8:31 am |
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| Accraholic wrote: | | This whole thing about "circumstances", and having the officer make the judgement call is just pure candy for the defense lawyers....whom are prolly going to be funded by me and you, not the cull who shot the bear. |
WDFW agents have to make judgement calls all the time. See the attached to see how many verbal and written warnings they hand out. Whether or not to write a ticket is a judgement call, and not all infractions end in arrest.
This rule change could be enacted so Washington's policy matches the surrounding states policies. I doubt "real" criminals will run free because the courts are too clogged with bear sow-with-cub killers.
 Enforcement
A fuxk, why do I not give one?
A fuxk, why do I not give one?
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