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Tom
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Tom
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PostSat Oct 05, 2019 2:35 pm 
That's Class 1. Class 2 allows throttle. Class 3 allows up to 28 mph (but no throttle). In the UK max is 250W, no throttle, and 15.5 mph (to comply manufacturers rate the motors 250W but they really put out closer to 500-600W "peak"). We are fortunate to have more reasonable e-bike laws in the US (other than throttle restriction for class 3 which is silly as it makes little difference vs. highest assist level at higher speeds). Class 3 feels about right to me while riding on pavement . Class 1 and 2 are reasonable for off pavement.

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Backpacker Joe
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PostSat Oct 05, 2019 9:42 pm 
Ok, I have 50 years of motorcycle experience, but zero e-bike experience. Tom has helped me narrow down my e-bike choice. Its definitely going to ba a class 3. JuggernautWhat I don't understand is how you control all that power without a throttle? Help me out here Tom.

"If destruction be our lot we must ourselves be its author and finisher. As a nation of freemen we must live through all time or die by suicide." — Abraham Lincoln
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Tom
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PostSat Oct 05, 2019 10:58 pm 
On a mid drive the motor is between the pedals. It helps you turn them. The assist starts / stops when you start / stop pedaling and how much depends on the level of assist you've set and how fast you pedal (up to some maximum cadence). More advanced mid-drive systems also have torque sensing to deliver power based on how hard you pedal in addition to how fast you are pedaling. A throttle isn't usually needed since pedaling is your gas pedal, but it can be useful in certain scenarios. You might be tired and need a short break from pedaling fast but want to maintain speed while pedaling slower. You might be starting on an incline and can't pedal fast enough to get moving. You might be traveling over uneven terrain and want to avoid pedal strike. But usually it's just for brief periods, not used like a normal throttle since it functions more like flooring the gas pedal. Most motors don't have enough power to keep going on inclines unless you help out with pedaling.

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treeswarper
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treeswarper
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PostSun Oct 06, 2019 6:26 am 
I have a bike with a throttle and a bike without. I prefer having a throttle. It makes starting up hills easy and gets me through intersections with traffic safe and quick. Remember, most ebikes are heavy and getting going is harder than a regular bike. I got a throttleless mid drive bike because it seems like there are going to be quite a few places where throttles will be banned. It just happens to be way more comfortable to ride than the other bike. I spent yesterday constructing a bike rack out of PVC for transporting the new bike. We'll see if it works today.

What's especially fun about sock puppets is that you can make each one unique and individual, so that they each have special characters. And they don't have to be human––animals and aliens are great possibilities
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Backpacker Joe
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PostSun Oct 06, 2019 7:21 am 
There must be a way of adapting a throttle to a class three bike. What is the point of all of that power of you have no control over it? Like TW said, he prefers having a throttle. Something to think about.

"If destruction be our lot we must ourselves be its author and finisher. As a nation of freemen we must live through all time or die by suicide." — Abraham Lincoln
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treeswarper
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treeswarper
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PostSun Oct 06, 2019 7:56 am 
I am not a he. I think you can have a throttle on a class 3 bike in the US. It's just that the throttle will be limited to a top speed of 20mph. The pedal assist has the 28 mph limit. A https://electricbikereview.com/forum/threads/what-are-electric-bike-classes-and-why-do-they-matter.22738/ But you may face more restrictions if you intend to be legal. Ebike law changes by locality. It is confusing.

What's especially fun about sock puppets is that you can make each one unique and individual, so that they each have special characters. And they don't have to be human––animals and aliens are great possibilities
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Backpacker Joe
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PostSun Oct 06, 2019 8:01 am 
Thanks TW. Im simply having a hard time wrapping my mind around spending the kind of money these class 3 bikes cost and having zero control over all that power. It dosent make any sense to me.

"If destruction be our lot we must ourselves be its author and finisher. As a nation of freemen we must live through all time or die by suicide." — Abraham Lincoln
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Randito
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PostSun Oct 06, 2019 9:55 am 
There is lots of info out there about how to hack ebikes to remove the speed limit for assist. One example

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Tom
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Tom
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PostSun Oct 06, 2019 10:29 am 
BPJ, you can get an inexpensive cable to program your Bafang Ultra 1000W motor. To make it class 3 limit the nominal output to 750W and restrict the assist to 28 mph I don't think you can have throttle at all for class 3 so you'd need to disable it in the programming (edit: I didn't see TW's link originally but it's unclear whether you can have a throttle that cuts out at 20 mph, and not sure it's possible to even program separately on the Ultra motor). If you limit throttle and pedal assist to 20 mph that makes it class 2 and allows you to ride on sidewalks and shared use paths. Technically you're supposed to have a sticker on the bike clearly indicating what class it is. You're not really giving up that much making your bike class 2 off pavement as you don't really want to be propelled much faster than 20 mph on rough road. You're still benefiting from the 160 Newton meters of torque from your Bafang Ultra going up hill. smile.gif

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treeswarper
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PostSun Oct 06, 2019 2:37 pm 
I will not do my if you want to go faster, get a motorcycle rant. But I sure am tempted. I will say that speed is THE most mentioned factor when it comes to folks wanting to ban ebikes. If you get one, please ride it politely. My home made bike rack works. Got a spendy bike and a $25 rack. dizzy.gif

What's especially fun about sock puppets is that you can make each one unique and individual, so that they each have special characters. And they don't have to be human––animals and aliens are great possibilities
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Backpacker Joe
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PostSun Oct 06, 2019 2:58 pm 
Toms point is accurate. I don't care about riding on the pavement. Im buying this for logging roads. I want the power/torque to climb steep roads, but I want control of the power.

"If destruction be our lot we must ourselves be its author and finisher. As a nation of freemen we must live through all time or die by suicide." — Abraham Lincoln
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Tom
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Tom
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PostSun Oct 06, 2019 4:23 pm 
You should be fine. It's actually harder to control the power with throttle because it's more of an on-off setting. When starting the bike with throttle you really need to dial down the power assist so that it doesn't pop a wheelie. Also, even though you've got a relatively powerful motor for an e-bike it really isn't that powerful relative to say a motorcycle.

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Backpacker Joe
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PostSun Oct 06, 2019 4:38 pm 
Thanks Tom. So is the power distribution based on how hard you're peddling?

"If destruction be our lot we must ourselves be its author and finisher. As a nation of freemen we must live through all time or die by suicide." — Abraham Lincoln
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treeswarper
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PostSun Oct 06, 2019 4:43 pm 
Ahhh, I did not know you had one picked out. One kind of handy use for the throttle is when you have stalled out on a slope, you can get off, hang onto the bike and run alongside it while using the throttle to get the bike, and pull you a bit. I ended up doing that on some short steep sections of trail in Idaho. Today I tried out the Gazelle on a sandy rocky (small rock) road and it did fine. I wasn't expecting that.

What's especially fun about sock puppets is that you can make each one unique and individual, so that they each have special characters. And they don't have to be human––animals and aliens are great possibilities
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Tom
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Tom
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PostSun Oct 06, 2019 4:54 pm 
Backpacker Joe wrote:
Thanks Tom. So is the power distribution based on how hard you're peddling?
The ultra motor has torque sensing so it will distribute power based on how hard and how fast you are peddling.

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