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Dayhike Mike
Bad MFKer



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Bad MFKer
PostFri Dec 19, 2008 1:40 pm 
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Tom wrote:
I'm thinking at least one more trip to Boulder/Pear/Toketie/Kawkawalk/Crater/Chaval Lake before the road grows over and becomes a hiking trail only. Only problem is I'd be going solo unless my partner has a capable ebike or really strong legs. doh.gif

Okay, okay! I'll get an ebike. I shoulda bough parts when the 30% discounts were going on. wink.gif

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"There is only one basic human right, the right to do as you damn well please. And with it comes the only basic human duty, the duty to take the consequences." -P.J. O'Rourke
"Ignorance is natural. Stupidity takes commitment." -Solomon Short
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Tom
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PostFri Dec 19, 2008 1:40 pm 
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BTW, here's a pic of my current build.  Still need to hook up the wires (note loose cable coming from rear of bike) but for the most part looks just like a regular bike.  It's on the heavy side since I wanted dual suspension for ride quality and also put heavy duty slime tubes in the tires to minimize the chance of flats but that's the beauty of electric assist as a few extra pounds don't matter. hockeygrin.gif

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Toonces
unleashed



Joined: 16 Dec 2005
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Location: On the pavement, thinking about the government
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unleashed
PostFri Dec 19, 2008 1:47 pm 
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Checkmate.


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If you show fear, a monkey will bully you.
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Tom
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PostFri Dec 19, 2008 2:24 pm 
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509 wrote:
How long would it take to assemble the bike if you had all the components on hand?

Not long at all.  The hub comes attached with a rim and spokes and fits most rear dropouts so you just remove the existing wheel, switch the tube and tire, and slide it in.  I had to file a little bit of my dropout to get it to seat all the way in but it was easy.  I had a few other minor complications like my disc brake rotor screws being a little too long to screw into the hub (so I just added a washer).

Quote:
Did you have to machine or tool any parts to get it to work??

Nope, although I did have to obtain a few tools since I'm not the handyman type.  Torque wrench ($30), bike tool kit ($20), file kit ($10), anderson powerpole crimping tool ($10).  That delayed assembly by more than anything.

Quote:
Did you look at front wheel driven set-ups??

Yes, but I was advised against it.  First, you get a lot more traction with the weight on the rear wheel - I was told front hubs don't work well off pavement.  Also, unless you have a very strong front fork the torque of the motor will break it.  Rear forks are designed to handle more torque (since that's where the torque of your pedaling is applied) so you have less issues.  For extra safety margin I'll be adding a torque arm.
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Backpacker Joe
NWH Joe-Bob



Joined: 16 Dec 2001
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Location: Cle Elum
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NWH Joe-Bob
PostFri Dec 19, 2008 3:32 pm 
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Tom, is the point only electric assist, or is it either power type?  (I.E. Human and or electric?)

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"If destruction be our lot we must ourselves be its author and finisher. As a nation of freemen we must live through all time or die by suicide."

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Tom
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PostFri Dec 19, 2008 3:37 pm 
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You can do either.  It's a freewheel so the motor doesn't add resistance.  However, the motor adds ~10 pounds and the batteries ~15 pounds so it would be on the heavy side to pedal uphill without electric assist.
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Backpacker Joe
NWH Joe-Bob



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NWH Joe-Bob
PostFri Dec 19, 2008 3:39 pm 
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Well heck, in the past I wasnt interested in this, but now that you have explained everything it looks very promising.  Nice work.  Now we have you to educate those of us who have never looked into this system.  Just think, as technology advances so will run time/longevity with these bikes.

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"If destruction be our lot we must ourselves be its author and finisher. As a nation of freemen we must live through all time or die by suicide."

Abraham Lincoln
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Tom
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PostFri Dec 19, 2008 4:21 pm 
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The big barrier is cost.  The hub motors are expensive enough but the batteries skyrocket the price.  I went with a 36v/20ah (amp hour) battery which provides plenty of range (i.e. one hour pulling 20 amps continuous at 36 volts).  The battery cost was reasonable because the battery only has a "c" rating of 1 which means I can only draw 1 times the ah capacity (20 amps) continuous without damaging the battery.  If I wanted more continuous amps or voltage for hill climbing power I would need a 36v/30ah battery or 48v/20ah battery.  Either of those would would be 50% heavier and cost 50% more.  So the only practical solution for more power w/ reasonable weight is to pony up for batteries with a high "c" rating.  Those get real pricey so most folks that want more power buy power tool batteries and harvest the cells inside to make their own ebike battery.  That's why I got some tool kit batteries as a backup, but I'm not really that excited about going that route unless I have to.
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509
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509
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PostFri Dec 19, 2008 4:23 pm 
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Tom,

One last question is it Pedal Assist or Pedal Torque??

Do you have to pedal in order for the motor to kick in??  I have ridden both styles of electric bikes and the pedal torque is definitely a lot more fun to ride.

Sort of like a bike on steroids.

Pedal assist is fine, but it definitely is a cross between a bike and a scooter.
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Tom
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PostFri Dec 19, 2008 4:26 pm 
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I'm not aware of many pedlec options out there (most are throttle based).  Most with ebikes get addicted to the power and don't pedal that much.
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captain jack
Serving suggestion



Joined: 25 May 2004
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Serving suggestion
PostFri Dec 19, 2008 6:32 pm 
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Toonces wrote:
Checkmate.


Yes, because you want to be dragging that turd over or under deadfall when necessary.  rolleyes.gif
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Tom
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PostFri Dec 19, 2008 9:57 pm 
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Good point.  I was speaking in general terms.  Some leave the tool batteries intact and hook them up via connector blocks.  Some harvest the cells.  Others buy the cells directly.  Whether you come out ahead really depends on how aggressively the tool pack batteries are priced.
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GeoHiker
Rocky Walker



Joined: 26 Feb 2005
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Location: Off the Deep End
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Rocky Walker
PostSat Dec 20, 2008 2:42 am 
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I think this is awesome, but wondering Tom if you've ever ridden a mtn bike with a backpack?  Adding all that weight up high is going to make it very top heavy.  You might want to look into dropping the batteries lower as was suggested in an earlier post.

I'm skeptical as to how much range you are going to get if do much uphill climbing.  Did you find much experience with gravel/hill climbing on the ebike forums?

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You call some place paradise, kiss it goodbye......Eagles
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509
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509
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PostSat Dec 20, 2008 8:28 pm 
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Tom wrote:
I'm not aware of many pedlec options out there (most are throttle based).  Most with ebikes get addicted to the power and don't pedal that much.

In America they get addicted to the power and don't pedal much!!  I talked to the Schwinn dealer and the same bicycles for the European market are made so that you have to keep pedaling to have the motor continue to run.  He said that Americans would just refuse to buy a electric bike that they had to pedal.  I think the difference is that Europeans  use bikes for transportation every day.  For us they are just expensive toys in most cases.

Giant, Panasonic, and some others make the pedaling required bikes.

I really do prefer the pedaling required bikes.  It is like having a bike on steroids.  You just forget about the the motor being there and ride like the wind!!

The pedal assist and throttle bikes are fine.  But it is a different experience.  You end up fiddling with the throttle instead of just riding.

When I was touring you and the bike would just become one.  With pedal assist it is a much more formal relationship.
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Tom
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PostSat Dec 20, 2008 11:13 pm 
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There are quite a few Europeans in the ES forums.  I don't really see it as a US vs. Europe thing.  The ebike laws seem to be stricter in Europe which may account for why there are more pedlec options available there.  I'm not aware of any pedlec kits though I'm sure they exist.  All of the pedlec options I've seen are all in one ebikes, which generally means crappy bike with crappy components and not much power.

BTW, this seems to be the dominant pedlec forum (glanced at it a while back but didn't poke around it much).
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