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steve_podleski
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steve_podleski
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PostWed Dec 05, 2007 7:44 pm 
"Experience" can't beat weather. How can one ignore weather forecasts of high winds and rain :-(

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GeoHiker
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PostWed Dec 05, 2007 7:47 pm 
It's good to see everyone made it out safely and nobody was hurt too bad. Makes me shake my head in amazement though. Might be too much Survivor Man or Man Vs Wild. After looking at their website it's surprising we haven't had more SAR events with this group. Are these people for real? I applaud their efforts in getting out and experiencing what "nature" has to offer, but you don't do it with a group of inexperienced people this time of year in the backcountry. Not having snowshoes?....hello This was not an easy trip. Maybe a nice summer day in July or August, but not in late Nov. There are plenty of car campgrounds where they could have played outdoors in a safe manner and not put dozens of people at risk. I hope they make a large contribution to the SAR teams. We don't have a law for mandatory repayment, but this gives a good argument for one IMHO!..... shakehead.gif

You call some place paradise, kiss it goodbye......Eagles
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Snowbrushy
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PostWed Dec 05, 2007 7:48 pm 
He wrote: "Thank you to every member of Search and Rescue. You are all amazing people." Works for me.

Oh Pilot of the storm who leaves no trace Like thoughts inside a dream Heed the path that led me to that place Yellow desert stream.
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kbatku
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kbatku
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PostWed Dec 05, 2007 7:48 pm 
It's just me, but...
...IMHO going into the back country during a storm, with inadequate gear and experience, is just plain stupid. It may have been a grand adventure, but if they had all died I bet they'd be singing a different tune. And, by the way, the forcast was for a severe storm, not 3-5 inches of snow. Anybody with a TV knew this was coming...

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Karen
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PostWed Dec 05, 2007 7:53 pm 
I was surprised to see that on their website Marten Lake (the Middle Fork one) was one of their destinations (in foul weather). Heck, Marten Lake is not an easy trail on a NICE day let alone a rainy day in October. Am happy to see SAR acknowledged and glad to see they made it out OK, though. Karen

stay together, learn the flowers, go light - from Turtle Island, Gary Snyder
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Gil
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Gil
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PostWed Dec 05, 2007 7:54 pm 
UnderfootRambler wrote:
This is the group in question- http://backpackers.meetup.com/114/calendar/6803238/
I like the rating for this trip. I'd hate to be on a one-star excursion.

Friends help the miles go easier. Klahini
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Snowbrushy
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PostWed Dec 05, 2007 8:11 pm 
Quark wrote:
this trip looks like, smells likes, acts like, a trip that should have an experienced leader who qualified to teach students..
NOT. Even the Mountaineers (hiking) leaders are not especially experienced. It's the internet. Leaders? Meet-Up isn't about leadership. Edit: Except karen leading Mountaineer trips.

Oh Pilot of the storm who leaves no trace Like thoughts inside a dream Heed the path that led me to that place Yellow desert stream.
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Snowbrushy
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PostWed Dec 05, 2007 8:52 pm 
Just don't believe every Leader on the internet/web.

Oh Pilot of the storm who leaves no trace Like thoughts inside a dream Heed the path that led me to that place Yellow desert stream.
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tofu on toast hiker
Santiago!



Joined: 06 Sep 2004
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tofu on toast hiker
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PostWed Dec 05, 2007 9:34 pm 
Quote:
What we got was 3 to 5 FEET of powder followed by torrential rain. We just couldn't make it out without snowshoes. Took 7 hours to go 1 mile.
Quote:
We had one synthetic sleeping bag. The other 3 were down and worse than useless, everything being thoroughly soaked by this time.
Quote:
We packed up and I postholed into a third river directly under where the tent had been. Hypothermia was also a big concern along with dehydration. I got to witness a couple of avalanches, new waterfalls, mudslides etc. There is no way to describe the power of water in these conditions. Unbelievable! It takes big trees and boulders along on the first wave like nothing. Sounds like a turbine engine on take off.
Quote:
It took 3 hours to move 100 yards across the river and up 100 feet to a tree where we again set up camp
7 hours to go 1 mile. These are trying conditions no matter how experienced or how good of shape you are in. Things are almost bound to go wrong when you are in conditions like that. So would you still want your down bag in these conditions or would you be wishing you had a synthetic?

T-O-F-U in the USA! T-O-F-U in the USA! Tofu in the USA!
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Snowbrushy
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PostWed Dec 05, 2007 9:35 pm 
Pütz-in-Boots wrote:
Just some thoughts... Do people who don't do a lot of independent studying up before a trip
take a risk? Yes. Do they deserve to die? They need to read www.nwhikers.net

Oh Pilot of the storm who leaves no trace Like thoughts inside a dream Heed the path that led me to that place Yellow desert stream.
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gyngve
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gyngve
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PostWed Dec 05, 2007 9:55 pm 
I am absolutely floored that their story never had any mention, either before, during, or after the fact of if they could have decided to turn back earlier. From what I've heard, they'll be lucky if their cars aren't "cached" until spring.

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Snowbrushy
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PostWed Dec 05, 2007 10:07 pm 
PIB, I'm sorry to have written a comment from your post out of context and responded as I did. I meant nothing .. Sorry.

Oh Pilot of the storm who leaves no trace Like thoughts inside a dream Heed the path that led me to that place Yellow desert stream.
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Magellan
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Magellan
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PostWed Dec 05, 2007 10:37 pm 
This is one of the silliest mistakes I have ever seen in the Cascades. Massive amounts of snow followed by rain and wind were forecast. These guys are so lucky to be alive. A two man tent for four people? Were two only along for a day hike? Did it occur to anyone to turn back at any point? This is a real head scratcher. confused.gif

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pimaCanyon
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pimaCanyon
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PostWed Dec 05, 2007 11:06 pm 
I'm guessing here, don't know the story as to why they went ahead and did the trip with the forecast being what it was, but maybe what happened was this: Somewhere, somehow they ended up with a forecast of 3 to 5 inches of snow to fall Saturday and Saturday night. Maybe they even knew about the forecast for rain on Sunday but figured they'd just hike out in the rain. So they could have hiked in on Saturday, set up camp and gone to bed early, and during the night it dumped. Not just a few inches but like 3 feet of new snow. One of the tents collapses, fall apart, self-destructs... They're left with the two person tent the guy wrote about. They try to hike out, but it takes them 7 hours to go one mile because they have no snowshoes. It's now Sunday afternoon, raining hard, and getting dark, so they set up the two person tent and huddle in it all night. Then the story continues on Monday the way the guy wrote it. This is all just a guess on my part, but it's what I come up with from reading between the lines. The two big mistakes IMHO were: 1) going ahead with the trip given the forecast 2) doing the trip with no snowshoes

It's never too late to have a happy childhood
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vasi
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vasi
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PostWed Dec 05, 2007 11:20 pm 
Rescue Snoqualmie Pass
I canceled my reservation for this trip 10PM on Friday night. Having checked the weather report I decided this overnight had the potential to be just too much work for a one night trip with weather reports of 2 to 3 feet of new snow by Monday. I had my pack loaded and ready to go. Saturday morning I snowshoed up to the second bridge crossing with the intent of spending the night with a 1.5 mile hike out on Sunday. About 3PM the snow and wind kicked up and I decided the forecast was becoming a reality and packed up and went home. In the winter I snowshoe every weekend, I know how difficult hiking with my 60 pound winter pack would be in 3 feet of new snow. That is why I canceled. As a pilot and flight instructor I know that weather is responsible for 70% of general aviation fatalities. I would guess that weather is proportionally responsible for same percentage of fatalities in the wilderness.

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