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Sean T
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PostFri Feb 15, 2013 12:50 pm 
How great is this--- OLYMPIA - The number of confirmed gray wolves and wolf packs in the state nearly doubled during the past year, according to an annual survey released today by the Washington Department of Fish and Wildlife (WDFW). Based on field reports and aerial monitoring, the 2012 survey confirms the presence of at least 51 wolves in nine wolf packs with a total of five successful breeding pairs. The previous year's survey documented 27 wolves, five wolf packs and three breeding pairs. A wolf pack is defined as two or more wolves traveling together. A successful breeding pair is defined as an adult male and female with at least two pups that survive until the end of the calendar year. "The survey shows that our state's wolf population is growing quickly," said Nate Pamplin, WDFW wildlife program director. "That growth appears to be the result of both natural reproduction and the continuing in-migration of wolves from Canada and neighboring states." Pamplin said the actual number of wolves in Washington state is likely much higher than the number confirmed by the survey, noting that field biologists currently suspect the existence of two additional packs. In addition, lone wolves often go uncounted and those that range into Washington but den in other states are not included in WDFW's survey, he said. Considering those factors, and applying an estimate of the average pack size in other western states, there could easily be as many as 100 wolves in Washington, Pamplin said. "The survey is the baseline we use to monitor wolves' progress toward recovery," he said. "While we've stepped up our monitoring efforts significantly over the past year, we recognize that it does not account for every wolf within our state's borders." One of the nine packs represented in the survey is the Wedge pack, which now has two confirmed members in northeastern Washington. Last summer, WDFW eliminated seven members of the pack to end a series of attacks on an area rancher's cattle that left six calves dead and 10 other animals injured. Pamplin said wildlife biologists do not know whether the two wolves living near the Canadian border in Stevens County are members of the original Wedge pack or whether they are new arrivals from inside or outside the state. "Either way, we were confident that wolves would repopulate that area," he said. "We really hope to prevent the kind of situation we faced with the Wedge pack last summer by working with ranchers to use non-lethal methods to protect their livestock." The gray wolf is currently listed by the state as an endangered species throughout Washington and is federally listed as endangered in the western two-thirds of the state. Once common, wolves were essentially eliminated in most western states during the past century because they preyed on livestock. Under the state's Wolf Conservation and Management Plan, wolves can be removed from the state's endangered species list once 15 successful breeding pairs are documented for three consecutive years among three designated wolf-recovery regions. Four pairs are required in Eastern Washington, four pairs in the North Cascades, four pairs in South Cascades/Northwest Coast and three pairs in any recovery region. More information on the state's wolf packs and the 2012 survey is available at http://wdfw.wa.gov/conservation/gray_wolf/packs/ . Reports of possible wolf sightings can be made to WDFW's wildlife reporting line by calling (877) 933-9847.

"he is one of those wolf lovers and hides in the shadows". 32 Predators
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Snowbrushy
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PostFri Feb 15, 2013 4:25 pm 
Sean T wrote:
The number of confirmed gray wolves and wolf packs in the state nearly doubled during the past year, according to an annual survey
We are the cutting edge more than Oregon or California. We have wolf in the Cascade Mountains. The state is overwelmed and dizzy and they know it. It's a perfect time for an all-volunteer group to step in and lend a hand to evacuate and re-distribute some wolf groups to other areas (with permits). It beats shooting the critters from aircraft. It just takes hikers, grant writers, Vets., helicopter pilots and Sarvey Wildlife or Wolfhaven or Woodland Park Zoo, and more. We can craft the model for the West. up.gif

Oh Pilot of the storm who leaves no trace Like thoughts inside a dream Heed the path that led me to that place Yellow desert stream.
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contour5
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PostSat Feb 16, 2013 4:09 pm 
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Sean T
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PostMon Feb 25, 2013 11:37 am 
Pretty Good follow up Seattle Paper

"he is one of those wolf lovers and hides in the shadows". 32 Predators
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Schenk
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PostTue Feb 26, 2013 3:04 pm 
Hmmmm....seems like this only means more wolves will be killed/culled now. 8, 16, 32, 64, 128, 256, 512, 1024, etc....doesn't take long at that rate. I will not be caught cheering for the Wolves to propagate when it really means they will reach the level where it becomes legal to eliminate a bunch of them. So all you folks who hope wolves reproduce freely and unchecked...your wish is actually for the death of more wolves. This is a good example of how poorly thought out all of this really is. No side will win in this situation...go ahead, try to convince me a doubling of wolves every year is so great for them.

Nature exists with a stark indifference to humans' situation.
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Sean T
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PostTue Feb 26, 2013 5:44 pm 
I suggest you read up a little more before you start assuming the wolf population will double every year. How many wolves have you seen in the wild? Wolves numbers don't double every year anywhere.

"he is one of those wolf lovers and hides in the shadows". 32 Predators
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PostTue Feb 26, 2013 10:11 pm 
They will far exceed doubling as they have everywhere else. It's pretty easy to figure out when a breeding pair usually have 6 but have up to as many 14 offspring and mate once a year.

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Sean T
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PostTue Feb 26, 2013 11:12 pm 
Really. ? Lol. Where's everywhere ? You mean double like 37 to 60. Or 60 to 120. Maybe you should go look up how babies are made then come back.

"he is one of those wolf lovers and hides in the shadows". 32 Predators
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Snowbrushy
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PostWed Feb 27, 2013 12:05 am 
Schenk wrote:
So all you folks who hope wolves reproduce freely and unchecked...your wish is actually for the death of more wolves.
That's true - and any honest wildlife biologist will admit that someday there will again be hunting of gray wolf in Washington State. It's true, Schenk. That will happen (someday). It seems depressing. Excuse me Sean, but isn't this discuss supposed to be over in the wolf thread?

Oh Pilot of the storm who leaves no trace Like thoughts inside a dream Heed the path that led me to that place Yellow desert stream.
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Slugman
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PostWed Feb 27, 2013 1:00 am 
Schenk wrote:
Hmmmm....seems like this only means more wolves will be killed/culled now. 8, 16, 32, 64, 128, 256, 512, 1024, etc....doesn't take long at that rate. I will not be caught cheering for the Wolves to propagate when it really means they will reach the level where it becomes legal to eliminate a bunch of them. So all you folks who hope wolves reproduce freely and unchecked...your wish is actually for the death of more wolves. This is a good example of how poorly thought out all of this really is. No side will win in this situation...go ahead, try to convince me a doubling of wolves every year is so great for them.
Wow. You actually think that what you cheer for or what others hope for actually makes any difference? The wolves will breed or they will not, regardless of what any of us hope for. And what do you propose to do about it if you don't want the breeding? Just how should it be "checked"? And then you claim that more wolves means more wolves will die. Yes, more live wolves means someday all those wolves will be dead, just like everything else that ever lived. doh.gif There is something really poorly thought out here, and it's your post. As far as anyone convincing you of anything that makes sense, I say "good luck", I wouldn't take that challenge. lol.gif But anyone else could easily see that wanting the wolves to come back means there should be more wolves. How many is enough? I don't know.

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Schenk
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PostWed Feb 27, 2013 9:31 am 
Slugman...You're trying so hard. It is you who did not think out your rebuttal. If you go back and look at an old post of mine, in a related thread which I swore off, you will see I proposed a solution. Ever hear of spay and neutering? It works on Dogs and cats, feral and domestic pets. Something else came out in that thread which was interesting too. I am no Biologist but I don't think you need to "fix" every Wolf either. As I understand it the Alpha male in a pack that is the primary breeder with females so take care of that one wolf and I can imagine you will stem a lot of breeding. If this can be implemented then you will have controlled population and the reduced need to killing them before a natural death (something you conveniently overlooked...there is a difference between being shot or poisoned and dying naturally) FYI: "won't catch me cheering" was a figure of speech. You are correct on one thing though: Your post, nor mine, will change anything. The only thing that will change anything is voting and being directly involved...not some opinion nor a rebuttal on this forum.

Nature exists with a stark indifference to humans' situation.
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Sean T
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PostWed Feb 27, 2013 10:21 am 
Spay or neuter a wild wolf ? Lol. Yea ok. The alpha make isn't the only breeder in the pack.. Let's use your idiotic doubling theory. in 1995 Yellowstone added 14 wolves ..In 1996 they added 17 more. 31x16 496. There are about 101 wolves in Yellowstone and 227 in Yellowstone ecosystem Average lifespan of a wild wolf is 6 years a few love longer. The safest place for a wolf to be in the wild is Yellowstone .. But with everything it offers in 16 or 17 years they only have a hundred wolves..

"he is one of those wolf lovers and hides in the shadows". 32 Predators
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PostWed Feb 27, 2013 10:45 am 
Just a side issue on the Yellowstone point. Yes you are correct about the wolf population in Yellowstone. However the elk population in that same time frame has dropped 75%. Not an issue just a statement I heard time and again when I was there this past summer from park rangers. Here's the opinion. In my way of thinking the wolves actually did their job, culled the elk herd and what you have now is, though much much smaller a more healthy, vibrant elk population. Isn't that what mother nature is supposed to do? Again not a slam on hunters but that's exactly opposite of what they do by taking the biggest and best! Now maybe I missed the point here and that can always happen with me but I would let the wolf population find it's own natural balance. Why must man (or woman) always try to do what they think best when nature does it, well naturally.

Chris S.
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Snowbrushy
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PostWed Feb 27, 2013 10:52 am 
Schenk wrote:
If you go back and look at an old post of mine, in a related thread which I swore off, you will see I proposed a solution. Ever hear of spay and neutering?
I remember reading your old post and I thought that it was a very worthy idea as a wildlife management tool. Come back to the other thread we need all the good ideas we can get.

Oh Pilot of the storm who leaves no trace Like thoughts inside a dream Heed the path that led me to that place Yellow desert stream.
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Schenk
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PostWed Feb 27, 2013 12:13 pm 
Sean T wrote:
Let's use your idiotic doubling theory
Not my theory and just what is your point? What does Yellowstone's wolf population growth have to do with the population growth in Washington? Are you saying it is evidence that Washington wolves didn't double in number, or won't continue to double?? Anyway, what makes you think it takes a surgical operation to sterilize or control fertilization in a Wolf anyway? It could be done but it would require tranquilizing and transport to an appropriate facility and back again. Pretty expensive and not very reasonable , but possible with enough money. Problem is...no money is going to be thrown at this issue anytime soon...what is a Wolf to do? But if you think just a little (careful, don't overheat) you might suddenly realize that Humans use chemical/hormonal birth control quite effectively. It is 2013, do you think we can't figure out how to do that with wolves? Regardless, my point was that once Washington Wolves reach the critical number they will be culled/eliminated/killed and you simply did not address that, or even disagree...you just made up some imaginary point of contention. That was my point and I am not cheering for that day despite what you might think my thoughts on Wolves are. If Wolves in Washington perform the same here as in Yellowstone then there won't be a need to cull. But that is not what is happening and it seems like some folks were cheering for the wolves to propagate fast and freely despite what we know the ultimate outcome will be...death from rifle or poison...

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