[Elvis]

[Kat]

I agree with a previous poster, the woman should have tried to educate, not harangue. All her nastiness didn't tell you a thing about how the XC tracks are used. We met a very nice mom and her son at Crystal Springs who pointed us in the right direction for some nice XC trails that day. A pity you didn't run into someone like that. It would sure have been helpful to have a *large* board with a map of the trails, & rules posted at the parking lot.... I ended up asking a ranger where the heck to even get started, as I was a little dubious about skiing where snowmobiles and cars were.... Heck, it was even a little difficult to figure out where we were supposed to park! Given all that, I would like to go back with both skis and snowshoes - looks like you could XC to some good take-off points in the woods.

[Sabahsboy]

As a former snowshoer and x-c skiier (who may rejoin the ranks, albeit in limited capacity do to physical limitations), I can agree...snowshoers and skiiers need to exchange notes. I rarely skiied on classically groomed trails. The State's program was just underway and those groomed trails were fine for skiing....when they were available. I tried skate skiing on a trip to the fab groomed trails of the Methow Valley. It was superb! However, one truly wants to go beyond to the back country and not be on the groomed trails. That is what made Amabilis and Kendall Ridge so fine....no grooming, snowshoers' tracks all over the place and you just got used to the rough snow. More often than not...it was "the snow", so often thawed and refrozen, granulated and glass-like. Never were conditions identical to any previous ski trip. Every outing was a challenge and a thrill. Got a few bumps but had a heck of a great time. Now, there are parking limits and groomed trail fees and rules (no dogs, no x-c skiing on skate ski trails, etc., etc.). The possible loss of Mountain Loop Highway for x-c skiing due to closure by County Sheriff, etc., leaves many winter recreationalists few options. No all of us wish to be down hill skiers and be standing in line waiting for the tow or chair. Good luck to everyone to get out and have a great time on primo snow! This winter's event may be the last for a while....La Nina will fade and a "normal winter" may come in December, 2008.

[Ace]

The John Wayne trail is 110 miles long and is mostly covered in snow 4 or 5 months a year. It's about 8 feet wide for its length and groomed. Most of the time, there is a cliff on one side of the trial and a mountain on the other, walking alongside the groomed area is not feasible. So, the only way to hike the trail is in the groomed part. Does all this mean that snowshoers/walkers shouldn't use the John Wayne Trail in the Winter?

[ActionBetty]

Personally, I would have played chicken with the rude and mean spirited female then knocked her right on her ass as she tried to push me off the trail with her rudeness. She sounds like she went out of her way to make it difficult for you. I now skate ski and snowshoe...I skate skied on a trail the other day that was slammed with dog paw holes, shoe holes and snow shoe tracks...I had the best time and the only thing that threw me off balance were the huge snow plops that kept exploding onto the track. Im willing to share the snow area with all the other lovers out there...I guess I just dont understand all the "this is for (insert favorite sport here) only and all others should be looked at as villians." I say first come first serve on the groomed areas.. you dont get there early..accept the consquences of the snow and possibly lots of other folks and animals on the trail. We pay less for a groomed trail pass for the whole year than it costs for one ski lift ticket... Maybe I am just too easy going and accepting of others having their chance to have fun too.

[Sabahsboy]

Ace, you have a point. I recall that either it was discouraged or plain illegal to touch a groomed trail with anything but x-c skis...or skate skis. With the dog, we avoided all those newly designated "groomed" routes and followed the tradional ones....esp. at Cabin Creek exit TH. Since then (late 1990's), the State/SnoPark rule is absolute....and that is "why" you pay more for the groomed trails. This policy now excludes a great many folks (myself, included). The huge number of people using Hyak/Gold Creek may now be "out of hand"....still paying for Permit, but not the extra for Groomed Trails, you can go forth with kids and others in tow, with or without skis, snowshoes, or, heavens, boots. LOL! Dogs have been "OK". The Gold Creek Loops have wandered the "roads" used by cabin owners/visitors (usually accessed by snowmobile). The owners pressed USFS and the roads were closed several years ago. The FS (or agency?) constructed the "improved" parking area and paved trail to Gold Cr. Pond, the former gravel pit resource for constructing I-90. I do not know the current rules for this area. It is unfortunate that conflict arose, that nasty business of recreation home owner vs. recreation seeking public" (trespassers). The long standing TH to Gold Creek FS Trail remains though it is now well remote of the access point/parking (now a de facto TH). I suppose if I owned one of those cabins, I would worry about rowdy hikers and x-c skiers and snowshoeing, dog-dragging snow bunnies. As population increases, these conflicts get ever more abrasive. I do not think current budgets or public will/government concern allows for even handed settlement and the crisis is brewing for long term conflict [you recall the hassles of constructing, then opening, the Lake Sammamish trail that follows the abandoned RR bed along the east shore....through yards (real estate of de facto, depending on legal description filed with county)]. Many of the adjacent property owners challenged and fought to keep the construction shut down, etc. I do not know how the perceived intrusion has translated into actual property vandalism, etc., that the home owners were so concerned about. In the end, we are all NIMBYs, I suppose. We jealously defend "our rights" vs. the perceived (or actual) rights of others. Heck, it's a democracy....so, "get a life!" I still think Kendall Ridge x-c route is a great playground for winter recreation...no matter your persuasion. Happy Trails, ya'all!