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Dave Workman
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PostTue Apr 01, 2008 8:12 pm 
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Well, since you've established that you can read, go ahead and read. If you feel something is steeped in bias, scream it to the mountaintops.

Anybody seen Al Gore heading toward my house with a truckload of wood? Tamarack would be great, but I'll settle for white pine, fir, maple and alder. Cherry makes good firewood, too.

It's got about 12 months to cure out in my wood shed, so it'll be nice and dry when it goes in the stove.
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touron
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PostTue Apr 01, 2008 8:23 pm 
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Unfortunately, Al Gore's pickup collided with Shirley McClaines UFO at Scott's Dairy Freeze.  There is kindling wood scattered all over North Bend for whoever gets there first.    Word has it that Shirley will soon be channeling warm ocean currents in the Arctic, and Al is trying to trade his Noble prize for an Academy Award on Ebay.

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Touron is a nougat of Arabic origin made with almonds and honey or sugar, without which it would just not be Christmas in Spain.
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Malachai Constant
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PostTue Apr 01, 2008 8:32 pm 
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Toonces wrote:
Hey Dave your first "source" cited has a BoD filled with Exxon, Amoco and GM execs.     rotf.gif

Any reason I should bother reading any further?   hmmm.gif

The second one was a story about a retired proof who made statements that were not peer reviewed.

The third was from a right wing site byline "Exposing and Combating Liberal Media Bias" with an ad for Ann Coulter who has urged  poisoning supreme court justices and going to Moslem's countries and killing their leaders and forcing the people to become Christians (we know how well that works out) Yeah seems kind of Political to me.

Don't think we have toread much further:rotf:rotf.gifrotf.gif

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Toonces
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PostTue Apr 01, 2008 8:46 pm 
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I tried to read further, but when I clicked on Dave's source "Aftermath News" I couldn't resist reading the following scientific articles instead:

Author claims 24 years of mind-control by Rosicrucian cult

CHEMTRAILS: Is U.S. Gov’t. Secretly Testing Americans ‘Again’?

Vaccinations at Gunpoint in a Brave New Orwellian World

Humans to marry robots in future

UFO seekers flock to mystery lights in Texas

Jewish power dominates at ‘Vanity Fair’


. . . now if you'll excuse me, I have to find some aluminum foil.

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Backpacker Joe
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PostWed Apr 02, 2008 2:26 am 
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"Climate Confusion: How Global Warming Hysteria Leads to Bad Science, Pandering Politicians and Misguided Policies that Hurt the Poor."

Good read.

Amazon


"If you listen to the media, you would think that man-made environmental catastrophe was about to engulf the world and imperil civilization. From Al Gore's An Inconvenient Truth to nightly jeremiads about CO2 emissions and carbon footprints, we are bombarded around the clock with alarmist reports that disasterous global warming is on the rise and that it's our fault. In Climate Confusion, noted climatologist Roy Spencer shows that fears about global warming are vastly exaggerated and are driven by politics, not truth. He shows that a global superstorm has already arrived-but it is a storm of hype and hysteria. Climate Confusion is a ground-breaking book that combines impeccable scientific authority with great wit and literary panache to expose the hysteria surrounding the myths of global warming and climate change. Spencer shows that the earth is far more resilient than exopessimists pretend and that increasing wealth and technology ingenuity, far from being the enemies of the environment, are the only means we possess to solve environmental problems as they arise."
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Dave Workman
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PostWed Apr 02, 2008 4:34 am 
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Malachai Constant wrote:

The third was from a right wing site

Well, if we're going in this direction, Mal, one would have to point out that the biggest proponents of GW are "left wing sites."

So far as the retired guy who wasn't "peer reviewed," since when do we tell retired guys their opinion doesn't count until it is "peer reviewed?"


Touron:  Damn! I was wondering what that crash was. That bus load of Japanese tourists looking for the Twin Peaks restaurant must have cleaned up the mess real fast, while waiting for a "damn fine cup of coffee."

I'll check ebay to see what they're offering Al for the prize. Maybe somebody has a load of firewood they're willing to swap.
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Dave Workman
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PostWed Apr 02, 2008 4:35 am 
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Pütz-in-Boots wrote:
Why not check if GW is busy. I hear he's pretty handy on the ranch.  lol.gif


I hope so. I saw him the other night, and he can't pitch a baseball worth a damn.
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treeswarper
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PostWed Apr 02, 2008 5:39 am 
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I wish this area of the globe would warm up a bit.  I shucked the longhandles and tin pants yesterday  for the summer carharts, got wet up to the knees and if I stopped work to say, file the chain, got froze to near death.  The sun don't ever shine  where I was and I drove home with the heater on high and then jumped in the hot tub.  But I'm fairly uneducated so will comfort myself that I am not really cold but getting warmer ... smile.gif

morework for twinkle0001
morework for twinkle0001

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Lono
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PostWed Apr 02, 2008 8:34 am 
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Dave Workman wrote:
So far as the retired guy who wasn't "peer reviewed," since when do we tell retired guys their opinion doesn't count until it is "peer reviewed?"

In science, that's precisely what we do.  It keeps us from bastardizing data and drawing wrong conclusions, and advancing knowledge.  It doesn't invalidate the opinions of the retired guy, just says that unless his work has been peer reviewed, his opinions are no more legitimate than mine.  And I subscribe to the theory of an evil dark twin star whose orbit is coming into alignment and will roast us all by 2012.  But I have little data to back that up.

Power of words - is anyone concerned about climate change, instead of Global Warming?  Climate change admits that temps will go up in places and go down in others, but there is an overall trend at any given time - warmer or colder.  The (peer-reviewed) science and data supports a current trend of warmer temps worldwide, melting ice glaciers, somewhat rising sea levels.  Meanwhile there could be 6 feet of snow outside your door, making scientists look stupid and their theories look wrong.  But the overall warming trends on a global basis continue to be measured, and across the earth the temperature is rising.  Most scientists have connected this warming trend to atmospheric CO2 levels, increased dramatically since the advent of the industrial revolution.  Now you can disagree with what's causing the increase in CO2, and say its coming from somewhere other than burning fossil fuels - you can believe it comes from cow farts or subterranean reserves (dinosaur farts).  You can say that this is all an entirely natural process, you can propose that the base of established science has gotten it all wrong (it wouldn't be the first time).  I don't really care.  Question is, can mankind limit the CO2 contributions it does control, and can reduced CO2 lower the expected impact of the trend of warmer temperatures?  For me, that's where the science begins to require a leap of faith.  They can't even predict whether it will rain most days...
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PostWed Apr 02, 2008 9:59 am 
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Tom wrote:
Backpacker Joe wrote:
this is all about money.  Al had a net worth of around two million dollars when he left the office of the Vice President.  At the moment he's worth around one hundred million dollars.

Regarding Gore, saw the 60 Minutes segment the other night.  Pretty interesting.  His current wealth is a result of stock market bets that paid off, particularly Google.  While he made millions off his movie he kept none of it - instead donating all his proceeds to the cause.  Also, regarding his large house that tends to garner criticism - it's solar powered which few of his critics point out in their comparisons.

Not that I care, but this Gore love-fest just seems terribly misplaced (and, honestly, kind of creepy):

Quote:
"According to the Associated Press, the Gore's 10,000 square foot Belle Meade residence consumes electricity at a rate of about 12 times the average for a typical house in Nashville (191,000 kwh versus 15,600 kwh). While there are mitigating factors (further discussed in our article about the Gore household's energy use), this is still a surprising number, given that the residence is approximately four times the size of the average new American home."

I suppose it's cool that he donated the profits from the movie to charity and all, but when one considers the movie as a glossy advert promoting warming hysterics in order to increase the value of his profiteering company, well, not so much:

Quote:
"If Gore's motivation in pushing Global Warming is so altruistic, was it really necessarily for the already wealthy Gore to establish a multi-million dollar corporation in England to cash in?"

I don't know what's more embarrassing, the over-the-top Gore fawning that runs rampant round here, or the failure of so many to recognize Dave Workman's original post for what it was: a joke!  I mean crickey, you know, it's been a very cold and snowy spring!  smile.gif
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joker
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PostWed Apr 02, 2008 10:00 am 
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I think Al is too busy giving profits from his film away in order to promote action regarding his concerns to come deliver wood. Shirley might indeed be a better bet  wink.gif . I'm sure that folks can cast this as him merely conniving to pump up his own profits. Uh oh - gotta go, I think I hear the black helicopters coming...
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Tom
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PostWed Apr 02, 2008 10:22 am 
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Dave Workman wrote:
I missed Gore on 60 Minutes. I was working, as I am right now.

Here you go.  May be a waste of your time unless you choose to view it with an open mind.

http://www.cbsnews.com/sections/i_video/main500251.shtml?id=3980795n

ewb wrote:
Not that I care, but this Gore love-fest just seems terribly misplaced (and, honestly, kind of creepy):

Quote:
"According to the Associated Press, the Gore's 10,000 square foot Belle Meade residence consumes electricity at a rate of about 12 times the average for a typical house in Nashville (191,000 kwh versus 15,600 kwh). While there are mitigating factors (further discussed in our article about the Gore household's energy use), this is still a surprising number, given that the residence is approximately four times the size of the average new American home."


As far as the "love fest", I have no love or hate for the guy.  Seems like many folks have pre-conceived notions about him based on their political leanings which IMO only pollutes their thinking when it comes to the subject of global warming.  Whether you like him or not doesn't change the science.  I'm just trying to look at things with an open mind.  I don't know if that snopes link reflects the current state.  That article is over a year old and does mention solar panels they were in the process of adding so does not necessarily reflect the current state.
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Malachai Constant
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PostWed Apr 02, 2008 10:30 am 
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Dave, you really should reserve comments to something you are knowledgeable on  guns.gif . By pressing line and citing wingnut sites this you erode your credibility.
The persons you cited are certainly entitled to their opinions but without peer review they are only opinions. We all know what a mere opinion is worth. If I recall you were requested to back up the statement that there are as many scientists opposed to GW as in favor. Citation to opinion web sites does not fulfill that request.
As far as politics the largest leftest organization in the world (Chinese Communist Party) is on the global warming deniers side. At the same time the presumptive Republican nominee  for president believes that immediate action should be taken to prevent it's occurrence.

I really do not understand the Gore bashing as Mtn Dog would say it is a pure ad hom attack unrelated to the question at hand.

As far as this being a joke it was on the first post but soon became a discussion when politics was injected by the deniers.

I do not like the term Climate Change because that was originated by a denier think tank to minimize the problem because the climate is always changing. Global Warming is the proper descriptive term because what concerns  scientists is the warming not changing climate on a worldwide basis not local fluctuations.

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MtnGoat
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PostWed Apr 02, 2008 10:41 am 
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Slugman wrote:
Mr Gore is ten times as intelligent as those who routinely trash him.

Yeah, he's sharp enough to pay his carbon abatement fees for his megamansion to companies he owns, and jet all over the world telling us we, the little people, need to cut back, while his backers look the other way at the spectacle of a rich limo enviro telling everyone else how they have to stop polluting.

But that's not intelligence, he's no different than any other religious zealout.

Quote:
In any case, politics is banned except in the Stewardship forum, and even then it must be directly related to the stewardship issue under discussion. If the moderators would nip some of this nonsense in the bud, there would be fewer pointless arguments around here.

True enough. I suggest we start with putting the GW topic off limits, since no minds are changed either way and it always turns to politics.

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MtnGoat
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PostWed Apr 02, 2008 10:42 am 
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Malachai Constant wrote:
The persons you cited are certainly entitled to their opinions but without peer review they are only opinions. .

Even then they remain opinions. I'm sure this is inconvenient in an argument relying on a headcount to come to insupportable conclusions, but that's how it is anyway.

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Diplomacy is the art of saying 'Nice doggie' until you can find a rock. - Will Rogers
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