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Backpacker Joe Blind Hiker
Joined: 16 Dec 2001 Posts: 23956 | TRs | Pics Location: Cle Elum |
Where'd you send the letter Tom?
"If destruction be our lot we must ourselves be its author and finisher. As a nation of freemen we must live through all time or die by suicide."
— Abraham Lincoln
"If destruction be our lot we must ourselves be its author and finisher. As a nation of freemen we must live through all time or die by suicide."
— Abraham Lincoln
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Quark Niece of Alvy Moore
Joined: 15 May 2003 Posts: 14152 | TRs | Pics
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Quark
Niece of Alvy Moore
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Sat Apr 05, 2008 9:14 pm
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touron wrote: | Nice pictures!! I wonder if it wouldn't hurt for nwhikers to become a some kind of official non-profit group so our opinion on things like this might carry more weight? |
We already talked about the Washington Trails Foundation, remember? WTF?
Thanks for those pics, Tom.
I wear my heart on my sleeve about this area; my reactions exacerbated by the history I have been reading on it.
I hate to be part of the sorry generation that allowed this rich area to be locked up. There's nothing wrong with a few roads closed here and there, and there's nothing wrong with roads open here and there. But Green Mtn road leads to the most popular trail in the District.
The area on the N side of the Suiattle is still relatively wild - the south side, already inaccessible by the public, needs to rest.
...Which leads me to.............I was checking the map - and none of the roads on the s side of the River are accessible, but they're proposing a level 2 maintenance Straight Creek road to Circle Creek. Is it FS access only with tribal easement (or vice versa)?
Gonna see if I can get more information on what the deal is with the south side of the river. Boundary Bridge isn't even mentioned in the scoping letter, so I can only assume that since there are plans to maintain Straight Cr, there must be access to that area via some other way that's not public.
"...Other than that, the post was more or less accurate."
Bernardo, NW Hikers' Bureau Chief of Reporting
"...Other than that, the post was more or less accurate."
Bernardo, NW Hikers' Bureau Chief of Reporting
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Quark Niece of Alvy Moore
Joined: 15 May 2003 Posts: 14152 | TRs | Pics
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Quark
Niece of Alvy Moore
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Sat Apr 05, 2008 9:16 pm
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"...Other than that, the post was more or less accurate."
Bernardo, NW Hikers' Bureau Chief of Reporting
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Guiran Member
Joined: 03 Mar 2004 Posts: 621 | TRs | Pics Location: University of Washington |
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Guiran
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Sat Apr 05, 2008 10:04 pm
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I've definitely driven roads for "high clearance vehicles" in a low clearance vehicle, so I don't see the classification for Green Mtn. as necessarily being a deal-breaker for access. From what I recall, before the washout, Green Mtn. road was pretty rough compared to the Suiattle.
I'm definitely much more bummed out about Tenas Creek, particularly because the plan is to fix the bridge to move in heavy equipment to decommission the road, then pull the bridge out. This is one of my favorite access routes and easy enough for beginners to get into some spectacular high country.
That being said, I worry that the Tenas Creek area with access to all those lakes has run the risk of being another Middle Fork with trip reports to the area generally including no information on the approach and (from time to time) with lake names disguised in order to prevent the area from being loved to death. I really worry that trying to "hide" areas like this ends up killing access exactly when a strong constituency is needed. I'll be writing a letter asking to keep Tenas Creek open, but I don't expect the FS to change its mind.
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Backpacker Joe Blind Hiker
Joined: 16 Dec 2001 Posts: 23956 | TRs | Pics Location: Cle Elum |
Well Im sorry. I didnt see the link.
"If destruction be our lot we must ourselves be its author and finisher. As a nation of freemen we must live through all time or die by suicide."
— Abraham Lincoln
"If destruction be our lot we must ourselves be its author and finisher. As a nation of freemen we must live through all time or die by suicide."
— Abraham Lincoln
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Backpacker Joe Blind Hiker
Joined: 16 Dec 2001 Posts: 23956 | TRs | Pics Location: Cle Elum |
Ive got no problems with high clearence vehicle roads. But bloody hell, keep the things at least open to those rigs.
"If destruction be our lot we must ourselves be its author and finisher. As a nation of freemen we must live through all time or die by suicide."
— Abraham Lincoln
"If destruction be our lot we must ourselves be its author and finisher. As a nation of freemen we must live through all time or die by suicide."
— Abraham Lincoln
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silence Member
Joined: 25 Apr 2005 Posts: 4420 | TRs | Pics
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silence
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Sun Apr 06, 2008 9:56 am
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Quark wrote: | such an original sentiment. So....this person does not mention high meadows. Guess with all that road walking on river roads, he has never had the time to go up and see one. It's fine to experience the Dose and Sauk - but when roads close, there's no choice for the average voter/hiker to visit higher places. |
Sorry, just had to break away fm taxes and pipe in for us guys .. the other perspective
And sorry for your pain Quark.
Yeah, you’re right about the “green-bonding” ... as we’ll always need advocacy for our wild places (our last remaining) — to preserve and protect ... but roadless doesn’t mean stop, turn around, and stay out; and there are still plenty of relatively remote high country wheeled-access trailheads to enjoy .. so, let's not lose sight of that ...
And, when roads close (like the Dose) they become trails ... sometimes even beautiful trails — BTW a great 1st-time backpack for kids to a wonderful base camp ...
And, then those high meadows will remain .. wild and free as they should be .. from the car-tourist hordes (relatively speakin) who oft don't have the proper education and "skills" needed these days to rightly appreciate ...
And, yeah, I lament for Green Mountain and beyond .. esp for ezier access to Glacier Peak .. and such, but look forward to the plannin and great adventure of gettin there, and the solitude, and the “untrammeled ground”
I realize this discussion is a lot about funding right now .. since these roads are being closed for lack of, not for ideology or policy per se, and agree some should NOT be closed ... so plez do write on ...
PHOTOS
FILMS
Keep a good head and always carry a light bulb. – Bob Dylan
PHOTOS
FILMS
Keep a good head and always carry a light bulb. – Bob Dylan
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Slugman It’s a Slugfest!
Joined: 27 Mar 2003 Posts: 16874 | TRs | Pics
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Slugman
It’s a Slugfest!
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Sun Apr 06, 2008 1:47 pm
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Roads should only be closed if there is a good reason to close that particular road, and after extensive public comment that favors the closure. Closing roads simply because we are too cheap as a society to keep them open is a complete travesty IMO. Blame the people who are always shouting that they hate all taxes and want continual tax cuts. They are also the ones who decry any attempt to fund our parks and forests, and viciously attack anyone who attempts to do so. Funny how many of them are also the ones crying the loudest about the road closures..... Reaping what you sow isn't always very pleasant, is it?
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Dayhike Mike Bad MFKer
Joined: 02 Mar 2003 Posts: 10958 | TRs | Pics Location: Going to Tukwila |
This is awful. Truly awful.
I have not yet been up Green Mountain, but the proposed action for the road up Tenas Creek is really heartbreaking.
I don't think 2660 (road to Boulder Lake trailhead) was high-clearance only before, was it? So this is also a big step backward (and a step toward ultimately closing the road completely).
Lose enough access to the beauty of Washington, and people forget what it is they're protecting. I'll be writing them to ask for reconsideration as well. This just isn't a good move.
"There is only one basic human right, the right to do as you damn well please. And with it comes the only basic human duty, the duty to take the consequences." -P.J. O'Rourke
"Ignorance is natural. Stupidity takes commitment." -Solomon Short
"There is only one basic human right, the right to do as you damn well please. And with it comes the only basic human duty, the duty to take the consequences." -P.J. O'Rourke
"Ignorance is natural. Stupidity takes commitment." -Solomon Short
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Quark Niece of Alvy Moore
Joined: 15 May 2003 Posts: 14152 | TRs | Pics
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Quark
Niece of Alvy Moore
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Sun Apr 06, 2008 9:18 pm
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Yah; look at the map. There aren't a whole lot of roads on the north side of the river, so they oughta be happy about that. On the other hand, that Green Mtn road does take up a lot of mountain....and it does bring down a lot of debris each season during runoff. But I would think maintaining it would be healthier for the watershed than not maintaining it, no?
6 miles is a lot of road to maintain - but Green Mtn is the district's bread & butter, practically. Everyone loves it.
I also fear the next step is closure. If that's the case, someone will just have to open up the original trail from the main road.
Link to trip report on what Green Mtn is all about.
"...Other than that, the post was more or less accurate."
Bernardo, NW Hikers' Bureau Chief of Reporting
"...Other than that, the post was more or less accurate."
Bernardo, NW Hikers' Bureau Chief of Reporting
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#19 Member
Joined: 17 Dec 2001 Posts: 2197 | TRs | Pics
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#19
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Sun Apr 06, 2008 9:38 pm
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Green Mountain LO is the start of the Buckindy High route. That's probably one that most of still have to do.
I went up Green Mountain, early every spring, for my first 7 hiking years. This makes me sad and sick.
Letter is one the way.
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MtnGoat Member
Joined: 17 Dec 2001 Posts: 11992 | TRs | Pics Location: Lyle, WA |
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MtnGoat
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Mon Apr 07, 2008 12:48 am
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Slugman wrote: | They are also the ones who decry any attempt to fund our parks and forests, and viciously attack anyone who attempts to do so. Funny how many of them are also the ones crying the loudest about the road closures..... Reaping what you sow isn't always very pleasant, is it? |
Who are 'they', Sluggo?
Who decrys funding of parks and forests? Who *specifically*?
Diplomacy is the art of saying 'Nice doggie' until you can find a rock. - Will Rogers
Diplomacy is the art of saying 'Nice doggie' until you can find a rock. - Will Rogers
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WTM Member
Joined: 03 Jul 2003 Posts: 231 | TRs | Pics
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WTM
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Mon Apr 07, 2008 1:46 am
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I notice this section on the bottom of page 4 and top of page 5 of the scoping letter:
Quote: | Preliminary Issues: The following preliminary issues have been identified by the interdisciplinary team and through plan-to-project dialogues with public groups. When finalized, significant issues from continued scoping and interdisciplinary work may be used to modify the alternatives or form a new one, develop management requirements and mitigation measures, or track environmental effects.
1. The retention of Road 26 and other open roads may have adverse effects to aquatic integrity, Riparian Reserve conditions, water quality, and fish habitat. |
This seems quite ominous to me.
I think Road 26 and all 'associated spur roads' are being set up for future conversion to Administrative and tribal access only.
Could it be that the 'public groups' mentioned in the preceding quote are the ones that want the entire Road 26 system decommissioned?
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Backpacker Joe Blind Hiker
Joined: 16 Dec 2001 Posts: 23956 | TRs | Pics Location: Cle Elum |
Looking at my Topo program I can see that there is a Green Mountain trail that takes off from the Downey Creek trail head.... So if they close that road there will still be access to Green Mountain. I didn't see that trail the last time I was at Downey Creek.
"If destruction be our lot we must ourselves be its author and finisher. As a nation of freemen we must live through all time or die by suicide."
— Abraham Lincoln
"If destruction be our lot we must ourselves be its author and finisher. As a nation of freemen we must live through all time or die by suicide."
— Abraham Lincoln
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andrew e Member
Joined: 13 Feb 2006 Posts: 147 | TRs | Pics Location: Seattle |
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andrew e
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Mon Apr 07, 2008 12:34 pm
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