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mossy mom
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PostSun Aug 17, 2008 7:58 pm 
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Tag Man wrote:
Wow, yes by all means pull over if you are going slow and someone is behind you on the forest roads. On the 13th of July I was up at Marmot Pass and I was nice enough to let some ladies who were having a birthday party up there pass by me on the trail. When I got to my car, they were just pulling out of the parking lot. I was soon eating their dust, and I ate it the whole way down the mountain at 20 miles per hour. I didn't actually get a chance to pass their Volvo until I got to Hwy 101. I had a very severe case of roadrage by then. There must have been 30 pullouts they could have used but instead insisted on driving slow down the center of the road. As for left or right side of the road, as long as you are not on the left going around blind corners, who cares? If theres not a solid double yellow line in the middle of the road I'd say drive whichever side you want. Lights? Well as you know US laws enough to know we drive on the right side, I'm surprised you didn't know we also drive with our lights on at night. If anyone out there is offended that I don't turn my lights out when I'm behind you, accept my apology now, because my lights are staying on. Oh yeah, almost forgot. Welcome to the forums.


On the other hand don't tailgate a slow vehicle that has no place to turn off.  When people tailgate me and I have no place to turn off I am very tempted to not turn off when  place to turn off does come.   Happened to me on a mountain road with two kids in the car, I had no place to pull over but this A$$hole tailgated me anyway.  My little car could not get above second gear on that road because it was so steep and twisty.  I always pull over and let a faster vehicle by when there is room for me to pull over.

I also have a Jeep with a big engine that can go up that same road really fast but I don't use it to tailgate slower cars UNLESS they have passed 2-3 good pull over spots and have not pulled over.. then anything goes including passing on the right. rant.gif
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mossy mom
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PostSun Aug 17, 2008 7:59 pm 
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MikeBeebe wrote:
My biggest concern on mountain roads isn't bad drivers -- they can be avoided -- but DRUNK drivers.


In the mountains of California, it's almost a requisite to barrel down single-lane dirt roads liquored as Bacchus, and damn any hikers, bicyclist, equestrians or more sober motorists who have the unmitigated gal to be in the way. Car campers (and no dis to car campers, because I am one) seem to think it's legal to drive drunk as long as the road is unpaved and slanted vertically.


The situation got markedly worse once the "monster truck" craze started. Ego, bravado and booze are a dodgy mix with stationary folks, but throw in a huge truck, a belief that laws don't count in forested areas, and an attitude of entitlement, and a simple walk along a mountain road becomes a take-your-life-in-your-hands act of daring. Even if they don't strike you outright, you might find yourself dodging thrown beer bottles or other garbage.


Go slow, turn your lights on, and watch how straight the other motorist is driving -- and if they're not, GET OVER FAST!


There was a DUI accident on the Hamma Hamma road just yesterday.. might have been a roll over..
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Brushbuffalo
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PostWed Sep 30, 2020 1:13 pm 
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This topic has been opined quite thoroughly on this forum in the past (distant past). I want to contribute one more observation regarding self-declared 'road bosses.'

This summer we were heading out the Lost River Road to go up to Slate Pass.  When we reached the gravel section after the Lost River bridge we came upon a slow-moving van (5 mph. my GPS said....too slow for my truck speedometer to register).   I stayed a respectful distance behind for several minutes, then at a sufficiently wide section I tried to pass on the left, but was thwarted by the driver cutting me off.  At first I thought he was just dodging a pothole, but when I tried pass again, he veered to his left to cut me off again. He was deliberately keeping me from getting ahead!
I flashed my lights several times, this being a common signal to let one pass where safe.  But he kept the 5 mph sloth up the Harts Pass road, including not pulling over where he could.  Finally I lost my patience and went up right behind the van and laid on my horn. 
I regret doing that.  My wife would have been aghast if she was with us that day.  I can't control another's behavior, only mine, and I failed that time.

Anyway, at that point the van stopped and the driver stormed back to me, furious.  He proceeded to yell for a full minute or more, saying I was just like all the other &^%$#@!drivers who #@$%^! drive too )#&^%@! fast on the (*^#%^ road.  (his vocabulary was limited but his fury was intense).

I explained that it is common courtesy to let a vehicle pass where it is safe and the slower vehicle can pull off safely. (This was well before Deadhorse Point, where the posted speed limit is 10 mph but that may  be too fast at times. Most of the rest of the road is about 20 mph condition, reasonably. Some drive way faster, which is neither courteous nor necessarily safe.)

After letting me know in action  if not word that he was the self-declared 'speed cop' for the road, he slowly drove away...still at 5 mph.( I would have thought that in his rage might have upped his slowness to maybe 6 or even 7 mph)  I haven't been sworn at like that, ever, even in Army basic training.  We paused for about 15 minutes for me to relax and to organize our gear.

Three other vehicles passed by and I knew they would get behind the 5 mph guy.  When we proceeded several miles up the road we found Mr. 5 to have finally pulled over and let us all pass. One of them had somehow already found a way to pass Mr. 5. How, we have no idea.

I shouldn't have been so impatient and he probably shouldn't have been so demanding of other road users who are not driving crazy fast. I don't drive  recklessly or excessively fast on mountain roads, both to save my vehicle and my nerves and also for safety of all users.

And of course  afterward I thought of some smart-aleck remarks I could have said, such as:
"Are you through?   Now let me educate you.  This is a rough mountain road. It never has been nor never will be paved and smooth. Driving at conservative speed has little to do with the condition of the surface, but weather, dirt, and rocks do.  If you can't handle that truth, please just stay away and keep to the smooth city streets.  By the way, how is your anger management counseling going?" ( his van bore a Recovery Journey sticker).

On a more recent trip on the same road I was reminded of this incident when a small red Honda jumped in front of my truck, coming in from the Meadows Campground spur, and flew down the road going twice my speed, which meant the Honda was going between 30 and 35, at least. (Hitting potholes at speed will enlarge them.  Mr. 5 mph would have had a better case with Red Honda, who likely would have passed Mr. 5 unsafely).
There were also several other vehicles that pulled off for me to pass, as I did for more than I passed. Simple courtesy is all it takes. Road rage not needed!

There are roads where 5 mph is speeding for the conditions, but that one?

Nope!

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Passing rocks and trees like they were standing still
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uww
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PostWed Sep 30, 2020 1:44 pm 
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I agree- common courtesy is lacking in many areas of life these days. People need to be made aware that their actions do have consequences for others.

Brushbuffalo wrote:
And of course  afterward I thought of some smart-aleck remarks I could have said, such as:

The French have a term for this- L'esprit d'escalier which translates to 'staircase wit.'
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olderthanIusedtobe
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PostWed Sep 30, 2020 2:28 pm 
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Brushbuffalo, I think you showed quite a bit of patience before letting him have it with the horn.  I would've lost my mind.  Imposing a 5 mph speed limit and deliberately cutting you off from passing in safe zones is ridiculous.  If karma exists, that person should have 4 flat tires and have to walk 20 miles to get help.
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Brushbuffalo
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PostWed Sep 30, 2020 2:36 pm 
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Thank for the encouragement, older.  My two passengers thought I showed a lot of restraint including when the little screaming maniac verbally assaulted me. ("Why didn't you get out and pound him?")
Two reasons: turn the other cheek, and why get a physical assault charge about something actually trivial?
I still wish I hadn't lost my patience. We still hiked to our distant camp before dark. Patience isn't always one of my strengths. My wife is the most patient person I've ever known ( at 50 years of marriage, I know). I want to be like her when I grow up.

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olderthanIusedtobe
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PostWed Sep 30, 2020 3:48 pm 
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Brushbuffalo wrote:
My wife is the most patient person I've ever known ( at 50 years of marriage, I know). I want to be like her when I grow up.

smile.gif  It's good to have goals!

I'm starting to think I'm never going to grow up.
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reststep
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PostWed Sep 30, 2020 5:56 pm 
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Not that this has anything to do with anything but out of curiosity what age do you estimate the blocking driver was?

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"The mountains are calling and I must go." - John Muir
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Brushbuffalo
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PostWed Sep 30, 2020 5:59 pm 
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I will guess 25-30.

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timberghost
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PostThu Oct 01, 2020 5:48 am 
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People just need to show common curtesy on the logging roads too. People not pulling over and letting others pass is a pet peeve of mine. What really gets my goat is when you meet on coming traffic pull over or back up to let them pass and they don't even acknowledge the gesture. It would be like opening the door for them because they expect it of you. So I often tell them their welcome since they weren't intending to thank me in the first place.
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Randito
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PostTue Oct 06, 2020 6:56 pm 
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The slow poke driver was violating RCW 46.61.425

The general speed limit on forest service roads is 35mph -- unless otherwise posted.
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Brushbuffalo
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PostTue Oct 06, 2020 7:15 pm 
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Thank you, Randito.
So Mr. 5 mph guy was guilty of breaking a law.
I hope I remember that the next time it occurs....if I can withstand the onslaught of $@%&%@$%- directed at my sensitive ears and give an even more thoughtful courteous reply.
And by not laying on my horn next time!!

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reststep
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PostTue Oct 06, 2020 7:31 pm 
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35 seems a little excessive to me on most forest service roads but then I am old.

Just a note, I do pull over and let people pass.

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"The mountains are calling and I must go." - John Muir
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jinx'sboy
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PostTue Oct 06, 2020 7:45 pm 
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Randito wrote:
The slow poke driver was violating RCW 46.61.425

The general speed limit on forest service roads is 35 mph

Both are incorrect.

Forest Service roads are not, generally, subject to traffic laws of the State of WA.  This is because FS roads do not meet the definition of ‘public roads’; they are not built, maintained, etc with State gas tax revenues.  There are some (very) few exceptions.  Additionally, there are SOME cases where a National Forest has applied portions of RCW’s to SOME of their roads - but ONLY by specific Order, on a case by case basis.  Most FS roads would not fall in those categories.

The 35mph speed limit cited applies only to a single National Forest in Michigan (a Forest Supervisor there cant sign an Order that applies in a WA Forest).  Speed limits are established, usually, only on very high standard FS roads (like the main Icicle, Twisp River, Suiattle, etc)....and then - again - only by specific Order.
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Brushbuffalo
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PostTue Oct 06, 2020 7:55 pm 
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Oh wow.
I'm still hoping I won't match ' road patrolling' with my own impatience and form of rudeness by the horn bit next time.
And hopefully wife Audrey will be with me to moderate my response!

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