[Good Ag]

Thanks for all the information. Looks like we need to do some setup with our emergency contacts so that they have all the userid/password info in advance. I've been the contact at home on a few trips and so far it's seems like this device works well. We did arrange some rules as to what each message meant and what action would be taken. I think that would have helped in this situation. BTW, it's not $100/month. It's $100/year. Still not be a great value, but wanted the correct information posted.

[car68]

Exactly why I am posting this info. I know lots of people are using these and they need to be informed as to what happens behind the scenes when it's activated. I'm not going to say if it's a good or bad product. People need to make their own decisions. We did contact the SPOT VP by phone and he says SPOT2 will have some improvements. They did mention that the help button is only intended for friends and family. BUT.. If you press help and your family is in another state, and you are in the middle of the wilderness then who will they call. Search and rescue of course which is the same as the 911 button. Family in this case did the right thing. Now a SPOT and a satellite phone might be a winning combo. How about this scenario, you have your SPOT and come across a hiker, climber whatever who needs help. You press the SPOT button to call for help and your family thinks it's you. So SAR goes off into the wilderness tracking you. We do get a lot of 3rd party calls for help where the caller is no longer with the person in need of help. There are lots of what ifs.

[Bergschlawiner]

This is a very interesting case and good to see it followed up on with first hand information. Now I know is not good "PC" in our community to mention the "pay for rescue" words and I am not doing this. However, in light of Sheriff Rahr's recent announcements of drastic cuts in service and deputies, it would seem that something should at least be done to make the public aware of the unnecessary costs and time that incidents such as this can and will result in. Why can't our sheriff as a minimum send a letter to both the user of the device and the company politely mentioning a dollar amount for whatever time and gas this cost deputies and well as the gas costs and other unseen costs of volunteers. I really hope that all the SAR volunteers who used their vehicles have or will submit gas claims to DEM since this was obviously a mission with over 100 miles round trip. This would at least make this one person be more careful when using the SPOT. Its more than a simple "false alarm" that fire responds to and just goes back clean and dry to the fire station to fill out paperwork. I know this will never happen!

[Dayhike Mike]

[geophagous]

Accidentally pressing the buttons is a huge issue. While others have pointed out that the device does not work well in a pack, many will not heed this. At least with the PLB style devices an accidental button push seems like an impossibility, at least on my device. It would be simple to make the button pushes a bit more difficult to accomplish so that random junk will not activate them. Bad design on a device that could be better. Glad to get the details on this one. Seems that there were some significant issues with the "home front" that made this a much more difficult process. I do wonder however if the "true" 911 had been pressed if the SPOT company would have released the tracking info to SAR to aid in assistance? Seems from my understanding that they do something official like that in a "true" emergency. People really need to understand their devices prior to using them. Also educating the family is important. This serves as a reminder to talk to my wife about what to do if I ever activate my PLB, so some good has come of this event. And again a HUGE thanks to all those SAR folks!!!

[Dayhike Mike]

[MLHSN]

So how much is a Sat phone running these days? I know a bunch of joes were buying them when I was in the Middle East but I never checked out the pricing. Do you pay per minute as well or is it a monthly fee?

[Dayhike Mike]

I got mine for a little over $400, and it's $40 per month for 2008, $20 per month for 2009, 2010, and half of 2011. Unlimited calling from anywhere in the U.S. / Canada / Bahamas to anywhere in the U.S. / Canada / Bahamas. The cheapest option out there is a little heavier (13oz vs. 7oz) -- $300 for the phone, and $10 per month for 2008, 2009, and half of 2010. For me, it's reasonably priced insurance and a great way to keep my loved ones informed of our progress and/or delays.

[stevej]

Website for manual http://www.findmespot.com/Home.aspx Website to enter user name and password for locations https://login.findmespot.com/index.jsp THe SPOT has 4 functions, 911, A help ( really a user defined signal to his own community, not an emergency ), and OK, and a tracking function that gives up to 6 locations an hour. My daughter has used SPOT on the PCT from Mexico. We use it once a day for an OK function. I believe the 911 has an ability for the user to recall. In this case the "HELP" was not an emergency, and was a user error by the parties at home. As others have said the signalling can be intermittant, with tracking dropouts of hours of days. We stopped using tracking. Tree cover makes it worse, this years SPOT tracking demo on the AT is reported to be dismal. The OK function works usually, but not ALWAYS. As others say personal locator beacons and satellite phones are both more reliable. We are happy with the SPOT for what it is. My understanding is only 911 is an emergency and then SPOT will be calling first responders. A "HELP" or lack of OKs is not an emergency, the "HELP" is for the SPOT user's buddies information. They can define it to mean anything they want. Thanks for discussion, hope better explainers can get this info out to the search and rescue, and emergency dispatch people.

[stevej]

911 responder wrote They did mention that the help button is only intended for friends and family. BUT.. If you press help and your family is in another state, and you are in the middle of the wilderness then who will they call. Search and rescue of course which is the same as the 911 button. Family in this case did the right thing. Now a SPOT and a satellite phone might be a winning combo. How about this scenario, you have your SPOT and come across a hiker, climber whatever who needs help. You press the SPOT button to call for help and your family thinks it's you. So SAR goes off into the wilderness tracking you. We do get a lot of 3rd party calls for help where the caller is no longer with the person in need of help. There are lots of what ifs. My opinion. 1. SPOT should not have labeled the private function button "HELP". Hope their "VP" gets that message. 2. I am not sure the home parties did the right thing. If the hiker had needed an emergency response he would have hit 911, which is probably not going to be accidently sent. Most people do not know that any enquiry about a wilderness situation may result in rapid response, while an urban missing person report may get some settling time. 3. If a SPOT users does 911 for an injured party, common sense is that a SAR emergency response is coming as fast as possible to that location. The tracking function works intermittantly, so that will be unreliable. If the SPOT 911 user has to move then it is a problem, they can repeat the 911 message and SAR can hope SPOT repeats the new location to dispatch, and/or the SPOT 911 user can send the oxymoronic "HELP" and secret username/passwd can be used to access the locations.

[Snow_Knot]

Car68, Thanks for your side of the story. Im looking into somethings about SPOT myself, and how we are going to work those activations from the dispatch side of the house. Like I said, I will be looking forward to further upgrades SPOT will do with the device, because I can see sending teams to the field for accidental acivations in the future.

[car68]

http://www.backpacker.com/blogs/234 Another story, from Denali.

[stevej]

Thanks for these stories. The SPOT "OK" or "HELP" can be set up to send cell phone text messages and email of location and predetermined text message for "HELP". But the 911 button does not. SPOT 911 has contact information. I have modified the text message my wife left for the HELP button from "send HELP ASAP" to "This maybe an accidental Help message" Only what, thousands of these units in use already.

[Lono]

Another SPOT story to ponder, from Whistler http://www.piquenewsmagazine.com/pique/index.php?cat=C_News&content=Sar+on+wedge+1532 "The rescue crew were later shocked to discover a lone person, the injured climber, lying on the glacier at a higher elevation. The rescue crew was able to access, stabilize and transport the injured hiker inside the helicopter. The rest of his climbing party had to be woken from a “deep sleep” at Wedgemont Hut, according to Sills. Whistler SAR was surprised that the injured person would be left alone after a seemingly urgent request for help. According to an e-mail from Sills, the threesome felt there was no point in them all being cold when a helicopter would pick them up in the morning. However, when asked in an interview why the climber was left alone on the glacier, Sills said, “We don’t speculate on why people do things." Operator error, but not quite ready for prime time IMO.

[Tom]

Interesting issues raised here, although the more significant concern I'd have if I were a SPOT user is it not actually working when there is an issue. Just wondering, when you send a message / alert with SPOT will it wait until it has satellilte coverage before sending the message? Having used a sat phone via the same provider (Globalstar) it's a real eye opener as to the actual windows you have to communicate. I'd peg the odds of any given message going thru at 50% based on the % of time we had sat phone coverage on our last trip when we turned it on. No biggie with a sat phone because you just wait a short bit untiil the phone shows you have coverage and then you can make a call. Hopefully SPOT is smart enough to wait, but I really wonder given that the communication only seems to be one way. If so, I see that as a big issue unless it sends alerts multiple times to ensure the message gets thru, with the service being smart enough to filter out redundant messages.