[Malachai Constant]

The road has a short fuse to destruction, there is a major washout about 1/4 mi. in. the FS has no intention of fixing it and does not like the route (no NWFP required etc.). It was lucky to get through last winter and probably ounly survived because of the big snow pack, as Janis said, "You've got to get it while you can".

[tigermn]

[Go Jo]

[Tom]

[yukon222]

Not sure what you are talking about. There were only 6 of us at the summit with 2 dogs. Met up with Mark, Yet and the Lykkens as they were still climbing to the summit (about 15 minutes below the summit). At that point, the 10 of us and dogs stayed together all the way to the TH. BarbE, EastKing, Magellan and Rdyhiker all turned back early. They had also started before the main group and we didn't hike with them at all.

[Tom]

Just thought it would be worth clarifying the group of 19 split up given this is wilderness (party size limit of 12). It could easily be read the other way.

[Go Jo]

[Go Jo]

[Tom]

I'm not sure what the rules are (I assumed dogs count but maybe not). I don't think it matters that the group hikes in separately. If the group meets up at a destination or hikes down together I think it's an issue. We were 1 over on Ed's memorial hike so I can't say I've never bent the rules. Just something to consider to the extent TNAB destinations are in wilderness.

[Go Jo]

This link had a fairly comprehensive list of group size regulations, click here. My belief is that we self regulate our trail travel group size, specifically because we are hikers who would like the areas we visit to be in great shape when we return next year and the years after. If the technicality of group is the issue, then maybe we split into Pre-NAB (early leavers), TNAB Lite (most likely just heading to the first lake and then out to the pub), and TNAB Vets (up and back before the rest of us get our boots on). If the question is not about the rules but wondering if we are negatively impacting the trails on which we travel, I would say that we give a great deal of respect to the wilderness we are enjoying. This trip alone had members carrying out a raft left as garbage by a fisherman and we do not mark the trail for night navigation in any way. Judging by the respectful attitude of this group, I feel that we are enjoying the wilderness areas in the way that is intended. And I think the trail damaged me more than my boots hurt it this week. The summit shots you see in TR's are about the only major convergence and they are only done when the terrain is deemed safe for such a photo and we have yet to find other hikers trying to enjoy the summit at sunset on a Thursday night. Worst case scenario we are overfeeding the mosquitoes in the Alpine Lakes region...

[yukon222]

According to this US Forest Service website Alpine Lakes Wilderness regs, the Group Size is People + pack/saddle animals so dogs don't add in to the group total. In this trip, the main group had ZERO idea there were 5 other TNAB'ers who had left 30 to 45 minutes prior to our trailhead departure. The main group had 9 people briefly together during the initial ascent but dispersed quickly due to the different hiking speeds up the steep terrain.

[Malachai Constant]

As I have said before TNAB is not really a hiking club or group. It is a social group. There are no leaders, instruction, dues or meetings. They arrange carpools, that is all. That's my story and I'm sticking with it.

[Tom]

I recall seeing language at some trailheads indicating groups larger than 12 must split into smaller groups and stay a minimum of 1/2 mile apart at all times. I think I even saw it at the Snow Lake trailhead but I could be mistaken. Good to hear TNAB does not exhibit the appearance of a large group hiking together.

[Go Jo]

Good thing the Pour House doesn't have a maximum , though even there I can't keep up!

[Yet]