| Previous :: Next Topic |
| Author |
Message |
MtnGoat
Member
Joined: 17 Dec 2001
Posts: 11992 | TRs | Pics
Location: Lyle, WA |
|
MtnGoat
Member
|
 Tue Sep 03, 2019 1:05 pm |
|
|
| Anne Elk wrote: | | On a related topic, FWIW, I made this post in the Saloon discussing how a number of Cliff Mass's blog readers recently took exception to his dispute with the national reports on local drought conditions. It's more than rainfall and stream levels. A critical metric is " the evaporative demand drought index". |
https://www.epa.gov/climate-indicators/climate-change-indicators-drought
Let's play find the trend.
Diplomacy is the art of saying 'Nice doggie' until you can find a rock. - Will Rogers
Diplomacy is the art of saying 'Nice doggie' until you can find a rock. - Will Rogers
|
| Back to top |
  
|
|
MtnGoat
Member
Joined: 17 Dec 2001
Posts: 11992 | TRs | Pics
Location: Lyle, WA |
|
MtnGoat
Member
|
Tue Sep 03, 2019 1:21 pm |
|
|
Climate change protesters admit using a diesel generator to power their stage
| Quote: | | The environmental activists say it feels 'hypocritical' but it would have used more energy to transport a solar generator from London
A diesel-powered generator is being used to run the music stage at the Extinction Rebellion protests on Deansgate.
Organisers told the Manchester Evening News they felt “like hypocrites” but had been “forced” to use the generator because it would have been too expensive to get a solar panel made |
It should feel hypocritical, because it is the worst sort of blatant hypocrisy. You have no problem, *zero*, continually pushing schemes whose outcome is to force innocent people to spend more money for energy at every turn.......but when it's *you* and your holy goals, why of course spending less to use Satan's Juice is OK.
No, it's not OK, not in any way shape or form. You should be choosing to pay the higher costs you claim others should be forced to pay. You made the value judgment, you are responsible.
Diplomacy is the art of saying 'Nice doggie' until you can find a rock. - Will Rogers
Diplomacy is the art of saying 'Nice doggie' until you can find a rock. - Will Rogers
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Parked Out
Member
Joined: 18 Sep 2011
Posts: 508 | TRs | Pics
Location: Port Angeles, WA |
| Anne Elk wrote: | | On a related topic, FWIW, I made this post in the Saloon discussing how a number of Cliff Mass's blog readers recently took exception to his dispute with the national reports on local drought conditions. It's more than rainfall and stream levels. A critical metric is " the evaporative demand drought index". |
Seems like for most of the late spring & summer our west end river gauges (drainages that don't rely on snowpack such as the Hoko) were well below normal. On the other hand, IFPLs for western Washington were mostly at Level 1 all summer. I don't recall much for high temps and/or east winds this summer, so IMHO, "severe drought" is likely an Inslee-ism rather than an objective measure.
https://waterdata.usgs.gov/usa/nwis/uv?site_no=12043300
https://fortress.wa.gov/dnr/protection/ifpl/
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Parked Out
Member
Joined: 18 Sep 2011
Posts: 508 | TRs | Pics
Location: Port Angeles, WA |
| CC wrote: | | Parked Out wrote: | Full disclosure: I've been consistently left-of-center politically for many years according to these little online tests like My Political Compass. But I can't relate much at all to the Left of today.
 My political compass 1-4-2019 |
If you look at scores of Democratic presidential hopefuls on this site, almost all of whom fall in upper right quadrant, your score almost overlaps with those of Bernie and Tulsi Gabbard, who by US standards are "off-the-wall left." You can't relate to them? |
Sorry, was on vacation last week.
Clearly, the My Political Compass test misses some important dimensions. That said, I like Tulsi Gabbard and I actually contributed to her campaign because I share her views on Syria and I think she's somewhat less divisive than some of the other Dem candidates. I probably would never vote for her because she supports the GND and had a moronic stance on the Standing Rock fiasco, but I was hoping she'd do better than she did. Bernie's a pleasant fellow but an ideologue and 100% out to lunch on economics. I think he and a sympathetic congress would happily double the size of the federal government.
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Parked Out
Member
Joined: 18 Sep 2011
Posts: 508 | TRs | Pics
Location: Port Angeles, WA |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Randito
Snarky Member
Joined: 27 Jul 2008
Posts: 9513 | TRs | Pics
Location: Bellevue at the moment. |
|
Randito
Snarky Member
|
Tue Sep 03, 2019 8:14 pm |
|
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Anne Elk
BrontosaurusTheorist
Joined: 07 Sep 2018
Posts: 2425 | TRs | Pics
Location: Seattle |
|
Anne Elk
BrontosaurusTheorist
|
Tue Sep 03, 2019 9:00 pm |
|
|
| MtnGoat wrote: | | Let's play find the trend. |
The graph you displayed in your post is of the "nationwide" trend. The post I made in the Saloon and referenced here was talking about local conditions only. The useful data for that is the trend mapping tool here, screenshot below : Historical Palmer Drought Indices. You can plug in any date range you want from 1900, and stop/start the map scrolling as you want to review month-by-month conditions. Just to satisfy myself, I'm going to do a tally from the year I arrived, '82.
It's noteworthy that for this year, we've had 6 months of "severe drought" and 1 of "moderate drought". despite "all the rain" people have been perceiving. (August not added to data set yet.) By Palmer Scale methods, we're in worse shape this year than last year.
"There are yahoos out there. It’s why we can’t have nice things." - Tom Mahood
"There are yahoos out there. It’s why we can’t have nice things." - Tom Mahood
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Parked Out
Member
Joined: 18 Sep 2011
Posts: 508 | TRs | Pics
Location: Port Angeles, WA |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
drm
Member
Joined: 24 Feb 2007
Posts: 1376 | TRs | Pics
Location: The Dalles, OR |
|
drm
Member
|
Wed Sep 04, 2019 7:58 am |
|
|
I read recently that Arctic permafrost melt is going far faster than expected and that recent research shows a much higher carbon content in permafrost than previously believed. It's another aspect of the positive feedback for climate change. Do a search on batagaika crater for an example. One early computation suggests that the timing for converting away from fossil fuels needs to move up six years from what people talk about now to take this into account, but the models are still working to include this new data.
|
| Back to top |
|
|
MtnGoat
Member
Joined: 17 Dec 2001
Posts: 11992 | TRs | Pics
Location: Lyle, WA |
|
MtnGoat
Member
|
Wed Sep 04, 2019 9:07 am |
|
|
In a word, no. Nothing makes a child being used by adults, credible, and increasing her carbon footprint in order to bring her scolding to the US makes the fact that her actions contradict her arguments, self evident.
Diplomacy is the art of saying 'Nice doggie' until you can find a rock. - Will Rogers
Diplomacy is the art of saying 'Nice doggie' until you can find a rock. - Will Rogers
|
| Back to top |
|
|
MtnGoat
Member
Joined: 17 Dec 2001
Posts: 11992 | TRs | Pics
Location: Lyle, WA |
|
MtnGoat
Member
|
Wed Sep 04, 2019 9:14 am |
|
|
| drm wrote: | | I read recently that Arctic permafrost melt is going far faster than expected and that recent research shows a much higher carbon content in permafrost than previously believed. It's another aspect of the positive feedback for climate change. Do a search on batagaika crater for an example. One early computation suggests that the timing for converting away from fossil fuels needs to move up six years from what people talk about now to take this into account, but the models are still working to include this new data. |
So they were wrong about carbon content of permafrost and wrong about timing, but being wrong twice must mean that it's even worse than some thought....instead of showing that they are wrong about assumptions and that this is an indication of problems with the 'science'.
The fact that they can be wrong and wrong and have some claim that this means they must be right, is a prime example of the much deeper issues surrounding the science which isn't, such as the failure to objectively evaluate failed claims or accept falsification.
You will kill far more people by pushing them to more expensive energy and harming everyone economically, than would ever be harmed by a variation of fractions of degrees over decades, even if it wasn't natural variation.
Diplomacy is the art of saying 'Nice doggie' until you can find a rock. - Will Rogers
Diplomacy is the art of saying 'Nice doggie' until you can find a rock. - Will Rogers
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Backpackapalooza
Member
Joined: 06 Aug 2008
Posts: 184 | TRs | Pics
|
well said MTN Goat. I appreciate your posts and attempts to maintain scientific standards when evaluating climate science. The science is far from settled but unfortunately this has become a religious argument rather than objective evaluation of theories and facts.
|
| Back to top |
|
|
MtnGoat
Member
Joined: 17 Dec 2001
Posts: 11992 | TRs | Pics
Location: Lyle, WA |
|
MtnGoat
Member
|
Thu Sep 05, 2019 8:02 am |
|
|
It's cases like this where it's most blatant...but only if you look at it from outside of the religion. Imagine anywhere else in science anyone would accept the claim that being wrong on two assumptions must show the main argument is even truer.
Diplomacy is the art of saying 'Nice doggie' until you can find a rock. - Will Rogers
Diplomacy is the art of saying 'Nice doggie' until you can find a rock. - Will Rogers
|
| Back to top |
|
|
drm
Member
Joined: 24 Feb 2007
Posts: 1376 | TRs | Pics
Location: The Dalles, OR |
|
drm
Member
|
Thu Sep 05, 2019 8:12 am |
|
|
| Backpackapalooza wrote: | | well said MTN Goat. I appreciate your posts and attempts to maintain scientific standards when evaluating climate science. The science is far from settled but unfortunately this has become a religious argument rather than objective evaluation of theories and facts. |
What source do you think epitomizes scientific standards?
I'll offer my tops: the US National Academy of Sciences.
|
| Back to top |
|
|
thunderhead
Member
Joined: 14 Oct 2015
Posts: 1519 | TRs | Pics
|
| drm wrote: | | What source do you think epitomizes scientific standards? |
People, and outfits with successful careers in hard sciences. Physics, engineering, etc. In this specific case, the raw data reported by the national weather services of high tech civilizations is your ultimate source.
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
|
