[Brian R]

Agree. UW was, until recently, sane. Sad that their Social Sciences and Humanities divisions are now running roughshod over good research.

[Doppelganger]

[RayD]

[Parked Out]

[Malachai Constant]

Hate to disturb the sausage fest here but the debate is and always has been between the scientific consensus and an industry sponsored small minority. There is another opinion present here and on an Fox News and conservative media, that there is nothing to get excited about this is all natural.The scientific consensus has always been that warming is due to human actions and in the long run the result will be detrimental to civilization, how to remedy the situation is more complex. Arguing will not solve anything o ly delay solutions and make resolution more difficult. You cannot split the difference and make a compromise when one side is wrong and the other right. There are always are outliers that forecast catastrophe but that is not a reason for inaction. Cliff is not the messiah only a weatherman.

[Brian R]

[Tom]

So what parts don't you believe?

[Sculpin]

My frustration is that climate change and sustainability are mashed together, such that you cannot talk about the latter outside the context of the former. Or at least folks glaze over when you try to. Climate change is an extremely vexing question from a scientific standpoint, and the resources available for resolving it are not being allocated properly. Sustainability and environmental degradation should not be controversial at all. We know we are not doing the former but are doing the latter. For me, the most important thing that Greta Thunberg referred to was "the myth of eternal economic growth." That's the tooth fairy at the heart of all this, if your worldview assumes continual growth you might as well believe in the tooth fairy. So how do we build a sustainable world economy? No one knows, but one thing is absolutely certain. We learn or we starve. And that is not hyperbole.

[Brian R]

[Tom]

What do I believe? Pretty much what MC said. AGW is real (not any scientific debate here). Long term warming will be detrimental (hard to see it being positive). Solutions are complex. Consideration of all data and analysis for sure (which on whole makes it difficult for me to disbelieve).

[MtnGoat]

AGW not real, not backed by any science which follows the standard methods used for hundreds of years. Instead, we get the usual string of logical fallacies and evasions. The idea that there isn't any 'debate' is true only in the context of people who think evading debate or refusing to debate, has some scientific meaning. It does not. Refusing to debate has never settled any actual scientific question. In fact, refusing to do so proves the weakness of your arguments. Then, the fact that climate in the current interglacial has already been far warmer for far longer, falsifying the claims about species extinctions and terrible times, since the species of concern, and even humans, are still here. Frustrations over continual 'growth' are unfounded and based on myth and misrepresention, among other problems. The folks who won't want endless growth are, as always, free to stop growing and using the products of growth themselves. Which brings to mind the other elephant in the room...the refusal of the true believers to actually change themselves and their lives, at their own cost and risk, and discomfort...because they expect to be able to wait and force other people to make living their beliefs, easier on them. There's no evading the reality that not living what you claim to believe proves problematic at all levels, particularly when you expect to use other folks to serve ends you won't serve on your own of your own free will.

[Tom]

Right, and nothing's polluting your mind. You looked at everything objectively with an open mind. No politics leading you to the answer you want.

[Brian R]

Tom, I never asked you what you believed--but thanks for offering it up. Still, if you don't recognize a problem with MC's approach to the topic, well, not much more to say.

[Parked Out]

[Malachai Constant]

Seeing as you seem to like to quote and attack me I feel I must reply. Do not expect further response.