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Randito
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Randito
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 Mon Nov 25, 2019 9:04 am |
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| Gregory wrote: | | Nobody here can tell the Goat why he is wrong just that he is wrong and mock him like grade-schoolers. Anonymous grade-schoolers at that.
Unfortunately the science around global warming was spawned from the same vagina as the science used to manage our fisheries. Politics.....Now somebody pretend to be offended it will be the cherry on top. |
Actually all of Goat's arguments are debunked here:
https://skepticalscience.com/argument.php
Like a true believer, however when confronted with contradictory information he doubles down. His favorite mantra is "Models aren't evidence". His underlying conspiracy theory is that scientists are all colluding just so they can justify writing new grants for continued research.
Of course for the Goat -- the idea that oil companies, like the tobacco industry would engage in a disinformation campaign to forestall and limit regulations is the more likely conspiracy theory.
Not offended -- just shaking my head.
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MtnGoat
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MtnGoat
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Mon Nov 25, 2019 9:48 am |
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| RandyHiker wrote: | | Actually all of Goat's arguments are debunked here:
https://skepticalscience.com/argument.php
Like a true believer, however when confronted with contradictory information he doubles down. His favorite mantra is "Models aren't evidence". His underlying conspiracy theory is that scientists are all colluding just so they can justify writing new grants for continued research.
Of course for the Goat -- the idea that oil companies, like the tobacco industry would engage in a disinformation campaign to forestall and limit regulations is the more likely conspiracy theory.
Not offended -- just shaking my head. |
Actually..not. The arguments presented there relevant to my arguments, consist of evasions, half truths, and intentional misrepresentations. Calling something 'debunked' is not sufficient to actually falsify it.
You're welcome at any time to *show* us the actual falsification of one of my arguments by anything at that site.
I change my mind every time an argument I make is actually falsified, and I extend that change to everywhere it touches any other argument I make. Presenting 'contradictory information' can be anything at all, claims are a dime a dozen. I don't care if it's 'contradictory information', I care if it's fact, it's true, and it actually falsifies a claim I've made. I don't outsource my judgement to folks who use lousy methods.
My favorite mantra is what it is, models are not evidence..because it is factually true. If that's inconvenient, why...that's too bad. Truth isn't inconvenient to my arguments. Nor is 100% unswerving adherence to actual scientific method, with no mulligans, intentional evasions, or blank outs.
I have no underlying conspiracy theory. I do observe that humans are humans, the motivations and drawbacks thereof are exactly why sticking to actual scientific method, no matter how inconvenient, is of prime importance.
Diplomacy is the art of saying 'Nice doggie' until you can find a rock. - Will Rogers
Diplomacy is the art of saying 'Nice doggie' until you can find a rock. - Will Rogers
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MtnGoat
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MtnGoat
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Mon Nov 25, 2019 9:56 am |
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| Gregory wrote: | | Nobody here can tell the Goat why he is wrong just that he is wrong and mock him like grade-schoolers. Anonymous grade-schoolers at that.
Unfortunately the science around global warming was spawned from the same vagina as the science used to manage our fisheries. Politics.....Now somebody pretend to be offended it will be the cherry on top. |
You're correct, the 'science' was spawned by the dictate to go and find the human fingerprint. Not surprisingly, this incentive backed by govt money has the usual outcome, human nature insures that. There is no 'conspiracy' necessary to note actual human nature's outcomes, nor how bad 'science' which isn't can get.
Diplomacy is the art of saying 'Nice doggie' until you can find a rock. - Will Rogers
Diplomacy is the art of saying 'Nice doggie' until you can find a rock. - Will Rogers
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Sculpin
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Joined: 23 Apr 2015
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Sculpin
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Mon Nov 25, 2019 9:58 am |
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| MtnGoat wrote: | | the results are *not* actual temperatures ever measured, and it is lying to represent them as such |
Can you show where anyone has ever represented homogenized data as raw data? 
| MtnGoat wrote: | | The cherry on top...admitting a widely attacked, non climate scientist *improved* their homogenization, thus the implicit admission that science nor judging it is solely the province of climate professionals, but is accessible to *anyone* using proper method. |
 Re the accessibility of climate science, I have always insisted that folks read the real paper and not the Heartland or Realclimate spin, so this is an odd angle to take against me. Heck, I even published my own paper on climate (on Judy Curry's blog, anyway).
I consider Anthony Watts a "climate professional," even though he did not finish his degree. I am surprised to hear you belittle him based upon his lack of credentials. I certainly would never do that to anyone, it is the ideas and not the credentials that count. He has done a tremendous amount of good work here:
http://surfacestations.org/
Between every two pines is a doorway to the new world. - John Muir
Between every two pines is a doorway to the new world. - John Muir
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MtnGoat
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MtnGoat
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Mon Nov 25, 2019 10:14 am |
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| Sculpin wrote: | | Can you show where anyone has ever represented homogenized data as raw data? |
The regularly scheduled 'highest temp' frenzies often report homogenized/altered data.
| Sculpin wrote: | | Re the accessibility of climate science, I have always insisted that folks read the real paper and not the Heartland or Realclimate spin, so this is an odd angle to take against me. Heck, I even published my own paper on climate (on Judy Curry's blog, anyway).
I consider Anthony Watts a "climate professional," even though he did not finish his degree. I am surprised to hear you belittle him based upon his lack of credentials. I certainly would never do that to anyone, it is the ideas and not the credentials that count. He has done a tremendous amount of good work here: |
I have never attacked anyone's argument on the basis of their credentials, or lack of, because I don't find credentialism relevant or applicable when the argument is science, which isn't about who or an alphabet soup attached to a name. Valid arguments are valid arguments *regardless* of who makes them, the maker's credential list, or lack of same.
In fact, my track record in this ongoing years long argument is complete and utter rejection of credentialism as any form of valid argument in a scientific issue . No one without an opposition agenda against me could read my arguments as anything else.
I wasn't attacking someone making perfectly valid arguments I was pointing out that your admission of his aid in getting better science puts the 'must be climate scientist to make a critique' angle out to pasture, where it has always belonged anyway.
Diplomacy is the art of saying 'Nice doggie' until you can find a rock. - Will Rogers
Diplomacy is the art of saying 'Nice doggie' until you can find a rock. - Will Rogers
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Brian R
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Brian R
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Mon Nov 25, 2019 10:49 am |
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| RandyHiker wrote: | | Like a true believer, however when confronted with contradictory information he doubles down. His favorite mantra is "Models aren't evidence". His underlying conspiracy theory is that scientists are all colluding just so they can justify writing new grants for continued research.
Of course for the Goat -- the idea that oil companies, like the tobacco industry would engage in a disinformation campaign to forestall and limit regulations is the more likely conspiracy theory.
Not offended -- just shaking my head. |
Randy, this looks a lot more like the AGW folks. In fact, it seems to me that the alarmist camp is far far more disposed to disinformation, conspiracy theories, and, by definition, hysteria.
I think Goat has done a fine job demonstrating the AGW camp too often fails to follow method, cherry picks data and ignores relevant disciplines beyond "climate science." And what's more, as demonstrated above, gives deference to marginal credentials even as it eviscerates and tries to ruin tenured researchers who remain skeptical.
No, I'd say you just described many of the problems with AGW adherents.
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MtnGoat
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MtnGoat
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Mon Nov 25, 2019 10:58 am |
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All it takes is the commitment to follow actual scientific method, regardless of who advocates otherwise, why, or how many agree we need to use methodology not consistent with proper method.
Number one, models are not evidence.
Number two, variations are within already established natural variation.
Number three, consensus is not evidence.
Number four, it has already been much hotter for much longer in the current interglacial, and humans, and all the critters around now, survived in spite of bronze age technology being the peak of human tech.
take those facts out of the equation as the zeros they are in the logical chain for the assertions made..... and the entire set of claims unique to human causation, fall apart.
Diplomacy is the art of saying 'Nice doggie' until you can find a rock. - Will Rogers
Diplomacy is the art of saying 'Nice doggie' until you can find a rock. - Will Rogers
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Randito
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Joined: 27 Jul 2008
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Location: Bellevue at the moment. |
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Randito
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Mon Nov 25, 2019 11:00 am |
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The Goat doubled down, just as my model predicted.
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MtnGoat
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MtnGoat
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Mon Nov 25, 2019 11:02 am |
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I double down on facts and truth, yes. I'll triple, and quadruple, and quintuple down.
I didn't even actually meet your model conditions, something you didn't notice because of your ad hom bias. After all, nothing you argued or referred to has actually been shown to falsify any of my claims, and your model requires that my claim be falsified.
You're welcome, as always, to *show* that an argument I make is false. Not claim someone *else* shows it, not claim that some website shows it, not claim that....
It's simple. All I need do is ignore the social methods of attack based in sophistry, and stick with the process and truth. In the decades ahead, I will not be the one saying 'it was worth it anyway' (not true for the little people) , 'we did the best we could' (not true at all, ignoring proper method is not the best you could do), etc.
Carry on, it makes the comparison ever more stark. After all, you didn't address the content of my arguments, you merely attacked. Again.
Diplomacy is the art of saying 'Nice doggie' until you can find a rock. - Will Rogers
Diplomacy is the art of saying 'Nice doggie' until you can find a rock. - Will Rogers
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Tom
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Tom
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Mon Nov 25, 2019 11:09 am |
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AGW folks? AGW camp? AGW adherents? Yes, silly folk adhering to AGW being real.
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Randito
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Location: Bellevue at the moment. |
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Randito
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Mon Nov 25, 2019 11:10 am |
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| Gregory wrote: | | Now somebody pretend to be offended it will be the cherry on top. |
Exactly who seems offended and is defensive on this thread?
I am particularly amused by the repeated calls to science and demands to "prove a negative" in order discredit the Goat.
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MtnGoat
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MtnGoat
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Mon Nov 25, 2019 11:13 am |
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| Tom wrote: | | AGW folks? AGW camp? AGW adherents? Yes, silly folk adhering to AGW being real. |
Correct. Knowingly evading/downplaying facts like the fact that models are not empirical evidence, is silly.
Diplomacy is the art of saying 'Nice doggie' until you can find a rock. - Will Rogers
Diplomacy is the art of saying 'Nice doggie' until you can find a rock. - Will Rogers
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MtnGoat
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MtnGoat
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Mon Nov 25, 2019 11:15 am |
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| RandyHiker wrote: | | Exactly who seems offended and is defensive on this thread?
I am particularly amused by the repeated calls to science and demands to "prove a negative" in order discredit the Goat. |
There are no demands to prove a negative. Assertions I made are positives.
Diplomacy is the art of saying 'Nice doggie' until you can find a rock. - Will Rogers
Diplomacy is the art of saying 'Nice doggie' until you can find a rock. - Will Rogers
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Tom
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Tom
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Mon Nov 25, 2019 11:29 am |
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I just think it's funny Brian R found a way to include AGW 3 times. The horror that anyone might be duped by this AGW nonsense.
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MtnGoat
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MtnGoat
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Mon Nov 25, 2019 12:04 pm |
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Titanic waste of resources for a non problem, at massive expense in both money and citizens rights, is a horror. Govt is supposed to protect citizens rights, not abuse them.
It's a horror to see science abused and turned into a political weapon.
But at least it is responsible for massive and totally unnecessary (since the reason is false) pollution and CO2 emissions.
Diplomacy is the art of saying 'Nice doggie' until you can find a rock. - Will Rogers
Diplomacy is the art of saying 'Nice doggie' until you can find a rock. - Will Rogers
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