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thunderhead
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thunderhead
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PostFri Oct 05, 2018 5:18 am 
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Harvard University researchers find that the transition to wind or solar power in the U.S. would require five to 20 times more land than previously thought



https://news.harvard.edu/gazette/story/2018/10/large-scale-wind-power-has-its-down-side/


Yikes!
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RandyHiker
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PostFri Oct 05, 2018 5:35 am 
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thunderhead wrote:
Quote:
Harvard University researchers find that the transition to wind or solar power in the U.S. would require five to 20 times more land than previously thought



https://news.harvard.edu/gazette/story/2018/10/large-scale-wind-power-has-its-down-side/


Yikes!

And also

Quote:

“We must quickly transition away from fossil fuels to stop carbon emissions. In doing so, we must make choices between various low-carbon technologies, all of which have some social and environmental impacts.”
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thunderhead
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PostFri Oct 05, 2018 6:54 am 
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We have some wiggle room with regards to time.  No significant damage will be done to the environment if we get fusion or good batteries/cheap solar in the next few generations.

If you insist on reducing carbon right now, fission is the obvious tech that is actually mature.
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gb
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gb
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PostFri Oct 05, 2018 6:59 am 
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the cost of generation is not the same as the price a consumer of any scale pays.

The two are strongly related.  Germany has massive taxes in order to subsidize their poor planning.  Classifying some as a generation cost verse a tax&subsidy is meaningless semantics.  The end result is that through stupidity, germany has made their electricity inefficient and overpriced.

So you say. But the cost of production of energy is still not the same as the price to users. The graph clearly showed that. Germany's cost of production on your graph in blue was about midline for Western Europe. The difference was carbon taxes to users in red. You just missed that when you posted the graph.
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gb
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gb
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PostFri Oct 05, 2018 7:02 am 
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thunderhead wrote:
We have some wiggle room with regards to time.  No significant damage will be done to the environment if we get fusion or good batteries/cheap solar in the next few generations.

Hopefully mankind is smart enough not to believe that BS. Depending on how old you are you would live to eat your words. The changes are already dramatic and there is a lag we've not yet seen the results of.
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thunderhead
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PostFri Oct 05, 2018 7:12 am 
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Gb, calling something a tax does not magically negate that value.  You are confused and unable to understand either basic words or simple addition.  Try again.
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RandyHiker
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PostFri Oct 05, 2018 7:21 am 
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thunderhead wrote:
if we get fusion

lol.gif  lol.gif  dizzy.gif   rolleyes.gif
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thunderhead
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PostFri Oct 05, 2018 7:23 am 
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The changes are already dramatic and there is a lag we've not yet seen the results of.

Wrong and wrong.

There has been no "dramatic" change anywhere.  Furthermore the land portion of the climate responds(efolding time) to global warming scale radiative forcing in months and the oceanic portion in years.  There are no hidden surprises waiting around the corner.  Nothing you say is correct, gb.
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thunderhead
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PostFri Oct 05, 2018 8:12 am 
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RandyHiker wrote:
thunderhead wrote:
if we get fusion

lol.gif  lol.gif  dizzy.gif   rolleyes.gif

I suspect civilizations whose progress stops before fusion do not survive very long.

So we better get it.
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RandyHiker
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PostFri Oct 05, 2018 9:04 am 
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thunderhead wrote:
RandyHiker wrote:
thunderhead wrote:
if we get fusion

lol.gif  lol.gif  dizzy.gif   rolleyes.gif

I suspect civilizations whose progress stops before fusion do not survive very long.

So we better get it.

We already have a fusion reactor running very well, it's located at a safe distance,  just 1 AU away.  All we need to is setup collectors to gather the energy.
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thunderhead
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PostFri Oct 05, 2018 9:15 am 
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"Just" 1 AU he says!

I want my gw sized reactors to be smaller in size than seattle.

Oh and a control panel would be nice.

And at some point its going to need to work at a distance far beyond 1AU.
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RandyHiker
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PostFri Oct 05, 2018 11:12 am 
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thunderhead wrote:
And at some point its going to need to work at a distance far beyond 1AU.

Basing public policy on science fiction is a bad idea.

If you are going to fantasize about space travel, why not just go for a TARDIS?
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MtnGoat
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PostFri Oct 05, 2018 11:56 am 
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RandyHiker wrote:
We already have a fusion reactor running very well, it's located at a safe distance,  just 1 AU away.  All we need to is setup collectors to gather the energy.

Already done and collected. Trillions upon trillions of tons of petroleum, gas, and coal made from fusion powered happy sunbeams

--------------
Diplomacy is the art of saying 'Nice doggie' until you can find a rock. - Will Rogers
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RandyHiker
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PostFri Oct 05, 2018 12:08 pm 
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MtnGoat wrote:
RandyHiker wrote:
We already have a fusion reactor running very well, it's located at a safe distance,  just 1 AU away.  All we need to is setup collectors to gather the energy.

Already done and collected. Trillions upon trillions of tons of petroleum, gas, and coal made from fusion powered happy sunbeams

If you read the instructions that come with all generators-- they always say "do not operate in an enclosed space".

Prior to Apollo 8 the belief that the earth had limitless resources.  But the "Earth Rise" photograph awakes some people that the earth is finite.

So some will incorporate this into the choices they make and others will ignore it and some will even deny the image itself and claim the earth is flat.
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thunderhead
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PostFri Oct 05, 2018 12:37 pm 
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Basing public policy on science fiction

Not sure how you intend to divorce future energy policy from speculative science.
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