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MtnGoat
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Joined: 17 Dec 2001
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Location: Lyle, WA |
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MtnGoat
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 Sun Dec 01, 2019 8:41 am |
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| RayD wrote: | Tom, I'm not there yet. I'm just not as knowledgeable(sp?) as others here seem to be. I still listen to my doctor, my plumber, electrician and car mechanic even though I've learned here that I'm "appealing to authority" and that is "unscientific".
But what can I do? I'm not as smart in all specialized fields as others here so I listen to them as well as scientists who study in these areas. It really IS a problem.
I think what I'll do is watch the evidence as time goes on and ignore those who purport to have no agenda yet carry on with an energy that negates that. After all, sociology is a part of politics and, in the end, influences science, or better yet "science".
I wish you well with your new found truth, but hope you remain flexible.  |
The folks you list use testable methods developed using science by the numbers and not skipping over steps and which do not require using logical fallacies as evidence.
You're not committing the logical fallacy of appealing to authority until you argue that a claim must be correct on the basis that experts claim it is.
I'm not aware of anyone who claims no agenda. Agendas are only problems when they lead to claims not backed by actual science.
When sociology and politics influence the content of the claims made by science, then what you have is not science.
Details matter on this stuff. Every detail. You do not get to correct conclusions by applying shortcuts or flawed arguments.
Diplomacy is the art of saying 'Nice doggie' until you can find a rock. - Will Rogers
Diplomacy is the art of saying 'Nice doggie' until you can find a rock. - Will Rogers
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Parked Out
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Joined: 18 Sep 2011
Posts: 508 | TRs | Pics
Location: Port Angeles, WA |
Shocked I tell you; SHOCKED!
Greta Thunberg Says Its NOT About The Environment, Its About Ending Patriarchy And Colonialism
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Ski
><((((°>
Joined: 28 May 2005
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Location: tacoma |
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Ski
><((((°>
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Sun Dec 01, 2019 10:24 pm |
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okay.... so.... lunatic raving is the answer?
( i actually managed to make it through almost 4 minutes of that guy's tirade before clicking it off. )
the whole "paint everybody with whom you disagree with the broad brush" only causes me to think "nutball" when I see that sort of stuff.
thanks anyway.
"I shall wear white flannel trousers, and walk upon the beach.
I have heard the mermaids singing, each to each."
"I shall wear white flannel trousers, and walk upon the beach.
I have heard the mermaids singing, each to each."
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Parked Out
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Joined: 18 Sep 2011
Posts: 508 | TRs | Pics
Location: Port Angeles, WA |
| Ski wrote: | | okay.... so.... lunatic raving is the answer?
( i actually managed to make it through almost 4 minutes of that guy's tirade before clicking it off. )
the whole "paint everybody with whom you disagree with the broad brush" only causes me to think "nutball" when I see that sort of stuff.
thanks anyway. |
Wow, Ski, which rock have you been living under? This is not new stuff.
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MtnGoat
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Location: Lyle, WA |
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MtnGoat
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Sun Dec 01, 2019 10:50 pm |
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It's not new, and he's pretty much correct as well. There is no daylight between assuming control over nearly every aspect of human life in order to 'fix' society, or else, and being a totalitarian. Lying about it doesn't make it better, either.
I don't care how he makes his arguments, if they are correct that is all that matters.
The entire 'problem' exists because the people who claim to be a majority, who claim to care the most and that something must be done, refuse to actually take the steps in their own lives to do the drastic cuts and take the hits to their own standard of living. No one else was put here to be told what to do in order to ease the pain of their own ideals.
The fact is, they claim to be a majority and if every single one of them lived the claims, they could slash carbon without a single new law. But...that's where it will be easier to live their ideals if they can force others to as well, comes in.
Diplomacy is the art of saying 'Nice doggie' until you can find a rock. - Will Rogers
Diplomacy is the art of saying 'Nice doggie' until you can find a rock. - Will Rogers
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Brian R
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Brian R
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Sun Dec 01, 2019 11:02 pm |
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It's been about political power from the start, not science. The Green New Deal validates this position.
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Randito
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Location: Bellevue at the moment. |
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Randito
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Mon Dec 02, 2019 6:58 am |
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MtnGoat
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MtnGoat
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Mon Dec 02, 2019 9:59 am |
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Of course when what they do creates more CO2 emissions than they claim to be saving, yes, I find that to be a reason to dismiss their actions because the actual result of their *actions* did not match the claims.
Intentions are not the same as outcomes.
Diplomacy is the art of saying 'Nice doggie' until you can find a rock. - Will Rogers
Diplomacy is the art of saying 'Nice doggie' until you can find a rock. - Will Rogers
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RayD
the griz ate my pass
Joined: 20 Aug 2005
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Location: Vacaville |
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RayD
the griz ate my pass
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Mon Dec 02, 2019 10:14 am |
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| Quote: | | Of course when what they do creates more CO2 emissions |
Why does it matter when it doesn't matter?
don't believe everything you think
don't believe everything you think
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Parked Out
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Joined: 18 Sep 2011
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Location: Port Angeles, WA |
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MtnGoat
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Joined: 17 Dec 2001
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Location: Lyle, WA |
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MtnGoat
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Mon Dec 02, 2019 10:28 am |
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| RayD wrote: | | Why does it matter when it doesn't matter? |
Because it shows the outcomes of the actions do not match the claims. She is explicitly claiming to be setting an example, after all.
When you're claiming to reduce CO2 in order to reduce CO2, then you make more anyway, it shows a problem. It shows that claims made for reductions implied by her travel choices will be worse than pointless to begin with. And that's even if you assume the arguments about CO2 induced damage are true.
This has direct implications for the claims made for switching to 'green' sources, which would require massive increases in mining, refinement, and industrial production, let alone land usage.
Diplomacy is the art of saying 'Nice doggie' until you can find a rock. - Will Rogers
Diplomacy is the art of saying 'Nice doggie' until you can find a rock. - Will Rogers
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RayD
the griz ate my pass
Joined: 20 Aug 2005
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Location: Vacaville |
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RayD
the griz ate my pass
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Mon Dec 02, 2019 10:42 am |
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| Quote: | | Because it shows the actions do not match their own claims. |
So what? First you educate us on various logical fallacies, such as "appeal to authority", and now we get "hypocrisy" as a scientific point against AGW .
I'm sure not only you can do better, but you will try.
don't believe everything you think
don't believe everything you think
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RayD
the griz ate my pass
Joined: 20 Aug 2005
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Location: Vacaville |
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RayD
the griz ate my pass
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Mon Dec 02, 2019 10:47 am |
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| Quote: | | As if there's any shortage of reasons to dismiss St Greta...
Lol. Once again: |
Laugh, and laugh again! LOL
don't believe everything you think
don't believe everything you think
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MtnGoat
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Joined: 17 Dec 2001
Posts: 11992 | TRs | Pics
Location: Lyle, WA |
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MtnGoat
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Mon Dec 02, 2019 10:48 am |
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| RayD wrote: | | So what? First you educate us on various logical fallacies, such as "appeal to authority", and now we get "hypocrisy" as a scientific point against AGW .
I'm sure not only you can do better, but you will try. |
I didn't claim AGW was false because of Thunberg's errors.
I argued she put more CO2 into the climate doing her yacht stunt than she would have if she'd simply flown.
Usually I like to give people the benefit of the doubt, but it looks as if you're not paying detailed attention to arguments. Lumping critiques of Thunbergs trip into arguments against the details of AGW is the kind of thing which leads to flawed conclusions.
Diplomacy is the art of saying 'Nice doggie' until you can find a rock. - Will Rogers
Diplomacy is the art of saying 'Nice doggie' until you can find a rock. - Will Rogers
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RayD
the griz ate my pass
Joined: 20 Aug 2005
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Location: Vacaville |
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RayD
the griz ate my pass
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Mon Dec 02, 2019 10:53 am |
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And what does that show? That St Greta is a twit? And that helps to address your issue how exactly?
Sorry about all the ?, But your logic leaves me baffled.
don't believe everything you think
don't believe everything you think
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