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RayD
the griz ate my pass
Joined: 20 Aug 2005
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Location: Vacaville |
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RayD
the griz ate my pass
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 Tue Dec 23, 2008 5:09 pm |
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Some call it "chili con carne" while others call it "warm con carne".
Where does the UN stand on this important question?
don't believe everything you think
don't believe everything you think
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touron
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Joined: 15 Sep 2003
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Location: Plymouth Rock |
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touron
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Tue Dec 23, 2008 5:33 pm |
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According to the Kyoto protocol, member nations are asked to reduce their consumpion of chili con carne 25% by 2012 on the Mayan calendar. Consumption of soda crackers was not affected by this nonbinding vote. 
Touron is a nougat of Arabic origin made with almonds and honey or sugar, without which it would just not be Christmas in Spain.
Touron is a nougat of Arabic origin made with almonds and honey or sugar, without which it would just not be Christmas in Spain.
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Malachai Constant
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Joined: 13 Jan 2002
Posts: 16098 | TRs | Pics
Location: Back Again Like A Bad Penny |
 Important note: The regs. on Chilli Con Carne also apply to Vegetarian Chilli do not be deceived the problem is the beans not the meat, emergency shipments of Beano are being sent to Latin America 
"You do not laugh when you look at the mountains, or when you look at the sea." Lafcadio Hearn
"You do not laugh when you look at the mountains, or when you look at the sea." Lafcadio Hearn
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touron
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touron
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Tue Dec 23, 2008 5:46 pm |
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I'm not sure the evidence can be linked to the beans at all. Even dinosaurs ate beans, and there is scat evidence that the globe was cooler then. Also, a historian who specializes in legumes has recently published that the musical fruit is actually a misnomer for "the musical flute", an instrument that was commonly played loudly at chili con carne gatherings during early history in the old country. Guilt by mispronunciation. 
Touron is a nougat of Arabic origin made with almonds and honey or sugar, without which it would just not be Christmas in Spain.
Touron is a nougat of Arabic origin made with almonds and honey or sugar, without which it would just not be Christmas in Spain.
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Malachai Constant
Member
Joined: 13 Jan 2002
Posts: 16098 | TRs | Pics
Location: Back Again Like A Bad Penny |
I would beware of anyone who wants you to play their "Magic Flute"
"You do not laugh when you look at the mountains, or when you look at the sea." Lafcadio Hearn
"You do not laugh when you look at the mountains, or when you look at the sea." Lafcadio Hearn
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RayD
the griz ate my pass
Joined: 20 Aug 2005
Posts: 1763 | TRs | Pics
Location: Vacaville |
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RayD
the griz ate my pass
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Tue Dec 23, 2008 6:09 pm |
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| Quote: | | and there is scat evidence |
I beg to differ! Empirical evidence has shown that dinosaur scat, by itself, could in no way been responsible for the Medieval Warming cycle as was proved by various Internet Posts!
In fact, it has not been proven that the dinosaurs even walked the earth after the building of the Pyramids, although they must have been used in the building! Though I agree that their scat may well have been left over after their demise and now is contributing scat evidence to what you say.
However, it is an emprical fact that the wolves ate the dinonsuars and that is why the wolves need to be eliminated, or else they'll eat our lunch and then where will be?
don't believe everything you think
don't believe everything you think
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RayD
the griz ate my pass
Joined: 20 Aug 2005
Posts: 1763 | TRs | Pics
Location: Vacaville |
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RayD
the griz ate my pass
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Tue Dec 23, 2008 6:17 pm |
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| Quote: | | I would beware of anyone who wants you to play their "Magic Flute" |
The jury is still out on that issue. 
don't believe everything you think
don't believe everything you think
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Mtn Dog
Technohiker
Joined: 01 Aug 2004
Posts: 3336 | TRs | Pics
Location: Bellevue, WA |
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Mtn Dog
Technohiker
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Tue Dec 23, 2008 6:56 pm |
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You guys are killing me!  Here I am trying to give a decent response to Straydog and I'm about to pee my pants I'm laughing so hard.
| straydog wrote: | | First, it's probably worth mentioning that CO2 is just one of the "greenhouse gasses", and that's it's been the focus of GW because it's the one that we have the most control over. |
You're right so far. Water vapor comprises up to 40,000 ppm in our atmosphere at any one time and is by far the most prevalent greenhouse gas. CO2 is next at about 380 ppm, less than 1/100th that of water vapor and it also overlaps water vapor in parts of the infrared portion of the electromagnetic spectrum. Methane comprises about 1.7 ppm and Nitrous Oxide comprises about .31 ppm in the atmosphere. Aerosols have a reverse effect bringing cooling by stimulating cloud formation (and subsequent reflection of ultraviolet solar rays).
| Quote: | | Next, the relationship between CO2 increases and temperature increases is logarithmic. There appears to be a consensus that the range of increase is between 1.5 and 5 degrees Celsius everytime the CO2 concentration doubles. |
It's actually a decaying natural logarithmic function. The first doubling of CO2 has a far greater impact on the greenhouse effect than the second and third doubling of the concentration. This is because CO2 absorbs heat only in certain ranges of the spectrum. Once enough molecules have absorbed all of the heat in a given range, additional CO2 won't absorb any more in that range, no matter how much more is added to the system. And don't give me this "consensus" nonsense. This is science, not Neilsen Ratings. A doubling of CO2 concentration from pre-industrial times would equate to a rise from 280 ppm to 560 ppm, projected to happen sometime in the next 100 years. The change in Radiative Heating that results from doubling CO2 is given by this equation: ΔF = α ln (C / Co). For CO2 α is 5.45 and the result is 3.7 W/meter2.
| Quote: | | However, it has been difficult to arrive at a precise number in that range because we are in a constant state of transition and there has been no chance for a equilibrium to be reached to allow a precise validation. Influences arising from air pollution, trace gases other than carbon dioxide, solar activity, and volcanic activity also have an effect on the ability to establish greater precision. |
Let's not mix things up here. Changes in solar irradiance, changes in albedo, effects of pollution, and CO2 added to the atmosphere through volcanic activity are all natural causes of warming. They can be attributed a large portion of the heating we've experienced to date. But the heating that results from the concentration of CO2 in the atmosphere can be computed directly, as I've shown. The only issue at this point is what temperature increase we can expect from a given rise in radiative heating, also known as climate sensitivity. There are three different independent checks on this quantity that put the number at .1 °C per W/m2 of radiative heating. One is the empirical research of Sherwood Idso. Another is Earth's Annual Global Mean Energy Budget by Kiehl and Trenberth. They show that the heating from the Greenhouse Effect is 342 W/m2 and according to Stephan-Boltzmann's law the earth without an atmosphere compared to the greenhouse earth has a delta temperature of 0 to 58°C. This is about .1°C/Wm-2 also. Another value that corroborates this climate sensitivity is the work of Roger Pielke. By comparison, the climate models are using numbers from 3-5 °C/Wm-2 and are ending up with inflated findings as a result. The .1 value has been verified empirically, so it should be the one to use. Also keep in mind that negative feedbacks keep this number where it is.
| Quote: | | Between 1900 and 2000, atmospheric CO2 increased from about 295 to 365 ppm (global average). Given that we should have seen an increase of between .5 and 1.7 degrees C. This seems to agree with observational data, but to the lower end of the scale so far; temperatures increased about 0.57 degrees C during that period. The overall trend of increasing temperatures indicates that the increase we've seen is not likely to be due to other factors.
One thing that is still not known, is if there is some kind of "tipping point" at which the ecologic systems cannot keep up the increases in CO2 which might cause the temperature increase to move to the higher end of the scale. Some believe that some buffering has occured, reducing the temperature increases we've experienced so far. |
Going from 295 to 365ppm would result in about 1.6 W/m2 increase in heating which results in about a .16°C increase in temperature. The idea of a tipping point is nonsense. The climate has been through far greater extremes throughout the history of the planet and the temperature has never spun wildly out of control as a result of these influences. Why? Because negative feedbacks dominate earth's temperature and keep it's systems in a dynamic equilibrium.
Footprints on the sands of time will never be made sitting down.
Footprints on the sands of time will never be made sitting down.
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Scrooge
Famous Grouse
Joined: 16 Dec 2001
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Location: wishful thinking |
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Scrooge
Famous Grouse
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Tue Dec 23, 2008 9:06 pm |
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Back on the previous page, Gil said | Quote: | | Hi, everyone! Still at it, eh? |
To which MtnGoat replied | Quote: | | Heck yes. this is good solid fun. |
Just so. It's kept us entertained for nearly a year. So, when Mtn Dog mentioned the facts that | Quote: | | Water vapor comprises up to 40,000 ppm in our atmosphere at any one time and is by far the most prevalent greenhouse gas. CO2 is next at about 380 ppm, less than 1/100th that of water vapor |
...... it got me to thinking. The primary greenhouse gases, water vapor and CO2 are most abundant in the atmosphere just before Ice Ages begin. A fair amount of that water vapor gets wrung out of the atmosphere as snow and is trapped in the growing ice sheets.
The atmospheric CO2 gets trapped in the interstices of the glacial ice, so the amount of it left in the atmosphere is also reduced. ........ Incidentally, it's interesting to note that it's the trapped CO2 that's finally allowed scientists to put reasonably precise dates on the Ice Ages, because as the CO2 is released when the glaciers melt, it increases the amount available to marine foraminifera, resulting in changes in biotic assemblages, which show up in seabed cores, which can then be dated ......... Science does not necessarily go in straight lines, but it does get there.
Anyway, back to the greenhouse gases. As the water vapor and CO2 are locked up in the Ice Sheets, they're no longer in the atmosphere to do their bit for global warming. Instead, global temperatures decrease, a nice example of MtnDog's negative feedback. As temperatures decline, conditions for the formation of the ice sheets are improved.
But, the ice sheets started forming before the greenhouse gases were removed from the atmosphere.
And, the ice sheets started melting before the greenhouse gases were returned to the atmosphere.
It would appear that glaciation controls the greenhouse gases, not the other way around, so it is the Milankovich cycles, the 100,000 year cycles of the Earth's eccentricity, axial tilt, and precession that control Earh's energy budget.
However, when we disrupt this pattern of dynamic equalization by increasing the proportion of one of the greenhouse gases at a rate and in an amount that is outside the natural cycle, it is then that we introduce the possibility of unprecedented events ......... and the question of whether or not we need to do something about it.
Make no mistake, the current rise in CO2 is not natural, and it is outside the cycle of natural events.
Something lost behind the ranges. Lost and waiting for you....... Go and find it. Go!
Something lost behind the ranges. Lost and waiting for you....... Go and find it. Go!
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Malachai Constant
Member
Joined: 13 Jan 2002
Posts: 16098 | TRs | Pics
Location: Back Again Like A Bad Penny |
Obviously you have be misled by the fallacy of e-plurium unim you try to make everything one out of many i pity you feeble minds
"You do not laugh when you look at the mountains, or when you look at the sea." Lafcadio Hearn
"You do not laugh when you look at the mountains, or when you look at the sea." Lafcadio Hearn
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touron
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Joined: 15 Sep 2003
Posts: 10293 | TRs | Pics
Location: Plymouth Rock |
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touron
Member
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Wed Dec 24, 2008 1:30 am |
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| RayD wrote: | | However, it is an emprical fact that the wolves ate the dinonsuars and that is why the wolves need to be eliminated, or else they'll eat our lunch and then where will be? |
For some people, the chili protocol just means limiting your chili to once a year. To others, chili protocol means merely saying "excuse me." I won't tell you which camp I'm in, whether I'm in favor of chili con carne credits or not. Maybe if the wolves eat my lunch, they may end up contributing to global warming in a big way. And those who disagree with me...well your neighborhood may end up with a little mysterious global warming. I'm educating myself on this subject by reading this thread while I have supper. See photo of this thread on my monitor--proof, Q.E.D. that I'm concerned and doing my part
Touron is a nougat of Arabic origin made with almonds and honey or sugar, without which it would just not be Christmas in Spain.
Touron is a nougat of Arabic origin made with almonds and honey or sugar, without which it would just not be Christmas in Spain.
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treeswarper
Alleged Sockpuppet!
Joined: 25 Dec 2006
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Location: Don't move here |
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treeswarper
Alleged Sockpuppet!
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Wed Dec 24, 2008 8:44 am |
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Wear cotton shorts, and this is one time you WANT to have cotton shorts on, and turn that digested chili vapor into power by lighting a match and well, holding it close to the source. Then you can turn your thermostat down and entertain people too.
So have I earned those imaginary credits that the gurus who flit about in private jets talk about giving to each other? I changed my dog's food to a more digestible kind. The house smells better. If so, how many credits does doing away with massive dog flatulence have I earned? Are they good at Wal Mart?
What's especially fun about sock puppets is that you can make each one unique and individual, so that they each have special characters. And they don't have to be human––animals and aliens are great possibilities
What's especially fun about sock puppets is that you can make each one unique and individual, so that they each have special characters. And they don't have to be human––animals and aliens are great possibilities
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kleet
meat tornado
Joined: 06 Feb 2002
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Location: O no they dih ent |
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kleet
meat tornado
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Wed Dec 24, 2008 12:03 pm |
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Due to trends in global climate, Frosty the Snowman's vow to "be back again some day" can no longer be guaranteed.
A fuxk, why do I not give one?
A fuxk, why do I not give one?
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Klapton
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Joined: 21 Dec 2006
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Klapton
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Wed Dec 24, 2008 2:06 pm |
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| kleet wrote: | | Due to trends in global climate, Frosty the Snowman's vow to "be back again some day" can no longer be guaranteed. |
Apparently neither nosy neighbors nor government bureaucrats can stop SNOWZILLA!!!
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MtnGoat
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Joined: 17 Dec 2001
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Location: Lyle, WA |
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MtnGoat
Member
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Wed Dec 24, 2008 7:49 pm |
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Found something fascinating last night while catching up on my skeptic sites....who here knows the IPCC has never claimed to be making predictions?
Diplomacy is the art of saying 'Nice doggie' until you can find a rock. - Will Rogers
Diplomacy is the art of saying 'Nice doggie' until you can find a rock. - Will Rogers
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