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Backpacker Joe
NWH Joe-Bob



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NWH Joe-Bob
PostFri Jul 28, 2017 4:12 am 
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Hey Kat.  Nice to hear from you.  Well, some variables to consider.  Any gun experience?  If so, then you might look at a Glock 26 (Sub-Compact) in 9mm.  12 round magazine.  Using 147 grain subsonic rounds not terrible recoil.  If no gun experience, you might look towards a Smith and Wesson, or Ruger revolver 5 shot in .38 special.

Glock 26

Smith and Wesson Lady Smith .38

147 gr 9mm ammo

.38 special ammo


I hope Dave will chime in here. His experience is invaluable....

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"If destruction be our lot we must ourselves be its author and finisher. As a nation of freemen we must live through all time or die by suicide."

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Dave Workman
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PostFri Jul 28, 2017 6:15 am 
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Backpacker Joe wrote:
Hey Kat.  Nice to hear from you.  Well, some variables to consider.  Any gun experience?  If so, then you might look at a Glock 26 (Sub-Compact) in 9mm.  12 round magazine.  Using 147 grain subsonic rounds not terrible recoil.  If no gun experience, you might look towards a Smith and Wesson, or Ruger revolver 5 shot in .38 special.

Glock 26

Smith and Wesson Lady Smith .38

147 gr 9mm ammo

.38 special ammo


I hope Dave will chime in here. His experience is invaluable....

Afraid I have to BPJ.  The Glock is a two-piece pistol, like any semi-auto. If something happens to the magazine out in the boonies, you're stuck.
REVOLVER my friend. Always REVOLVER off the pavement (unless you take spare magazines,but we're getting pretty far into the weeds here. Let's keep it simple.)

The .38 Special is a stopper for coyotes, no matter what bullet one uses. It's loud, too. The idea here, I think, is to discourage the 'yotes. That just takes a bang, which is why I suggested the .22 Mag. It's pretty loud, and it will in my experience, put a coyote on the ground. But Kat wants minimal recoil, remember, so that must be the first consideration. Glocks don't do that in my experience and the smaller you go, the harder the recoil with them.

The S&W revolver is as good choice, as is the Ruger I mentioned. Both are relatively lightweight, but remember the recoil factor.

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"The essential American soul is hard, isolate, stoic, and a killer." - D.H. Lawrence
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Backpacker Joe
NWH Joe-Bob



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NWH Joe-Bob
PostFri Jul 28, 2017 4:39 pm 
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Thanks Dave. I mentioned the Glock because to me its as close as any auto ever has been to revolver reliability.  That said, I agree with you on your point. I didnt mention anything less than the .38 special because I've always believed that "IF" you're going to carry in the first place carry something with some stopping power! Having said that, I don't disagree with your point of volume and its effect on the animal.  Im glad Kat bothered to ask.  I bow to your expertise and experience.

Please let me clarify one thing. I never saw your post Dave.  As far as I knew I was the first to offer advice.  That's why I mentioned hoping you'd chime in after me.  LOL. up.gif

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"If destruction be our lot we must ourselves be its author and finisher. As a nation of freemen we must live through all time or die by suicide."

Abraham Lincoln
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Kat
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PostSun Jul 30, 2017 5:01 am 
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Thank you both for the suggestions & helpful comments! Hope all is well with you BPJ.  It's been years since I've done any plinking, so I'd say no, not much gun experience.  In the interim I "packed" a Kimber pepperblaster  lol.gif  Only 13' range tho.

The coyote thing freaked me out because, around 2:30 am what sounded like a really large pack of coyotes were yipping just across the lake we were at. We started talking in the tent, the coyote pack immediately went quiet. I was thinking they might be silently sneaking around the shoreline to get to our goats so we got out of the tent and walked around with our headlamps until daylight.  Good to know loud noise scares off coyotes, I am guessing they just took off because we spooked them by talking.

Altho I carry a first aid kit for the stock, had a small scare on our trip we just got back from, which made us think about dealing with a critically injured animal that could not hike out. A gun would provide a quick merciful option; much preferable to leaving it to suffer some horrible painful death.
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Backpacker Joe
NWH Joe-Bob



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NWH Joe-Bob
PostTue Aug 01, 2017 6:36 pm 
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Im not trying to scare anyone here, and I certainly don't expect this as the norm.  A few years ago two coyotes killed a woman in Canada.  I guess my point is, there is certainly an unpredictability factor whenever you're dealing with wild animals.  Being prepared is always better than not.

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"If destruction be our lot we must ourselves be its author and finisher. As a nation of freemen we must live through all time or die by suicide."

Abraham Lincoln
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Kat
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PostWed Aug 02, 2017 4:13 am 
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I would agree, all animals are unpredictable for that matter as well as humans! Altho I've never been particularly worried about coyotes before, they do apparently hunt in packs and that fact alone can give me the willies if I think about it too long.

I gotta say, there was that enlightening moment when he said "we have to get up and protect the goats" and I looked at him and said - "protect them with what, our freakin' trekking poles??"
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Dave Workman
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PostWed Aug 02, 2017 6:48 pm 
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Kat wrote:
I gotta say, there was that enlightening moment when he said "we have to get up and protect the goats" and I looked at him and said - "protect them with what, our freakin' trekking poles??"

Welcome to enlightenment.
Always consider shooting a last resort. But if it comes to that, it's best to have something with which to do the shooting.  winksmile.gif

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"The essential American soul is hard, isolate, stoic, and a killer." - D.H. Lawrence
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KekistaniProphet
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LOL I WIN
PostSun Aug 13, 2017 7:11 am 
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Kat wrote:
Hey oh wise experts - so what would be a good, light weight pistol option with minimal recoil for a small framed hiker, for defending stock animals against coyotes on the trail?

Keep in mind with a low power light weight gun you probably won't kill in one shot unless you hit them right in the brain stem (a shot to the frontal lobe can be survived, albeit with severe brain damage). You might just maim the animal. Better to totally blow it away so it dies with as little pain as possible. If you intend to fire a weapon: you use it to kill not to scare away or something. In the heat of the moment you will probably not have the presence of mind to aim for a non-lethal shot anyway.
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Dave Workman
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PostMon Aug 14, 2017 3:43 pm 
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KekistaniProphet wrote:
Kat wrote:
Hey oh wise experts - so what would be a good, light weight pistol option with minimal recoil for a small framed hiker, for defending stock animals against coyotes on the trail?

Keep in mind with a low power light weight gun you probably won't kill in one shot unless you hit them right in the brain stem (a shot to the frontal lobe can be survived, albeit with severe brain damage). You might just maim the animal. Better to totally blow it away so it dies with as little pain as possible. If you intend to fire a weapon: you use it to kill not to scare away or something. In the heat of the moment you will probably not have the presence of mind to aim for a non-lethal shot anyway.

Well, let's hope it doesn't come to that. It's okay to fire a gun to scare away an aggressive wild animal.
Better all around.

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"The essential American soul is hard, isolate, stoic, and a killer." - D.H. Lawrence
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Kat
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PostWed Aug 16, 2017 4:06 am 
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I know a couple of folks that have fired (not at the animal) to deter - the noise was enough to scare it off.
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KekistaniProphet
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PostSat Aug 19, 2017 8:33 pm 
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Yeah that doesn't always work. Better to plan for the worst case scenario.
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bulldog18
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PostTue Aug 22, 2017 9:43 am 
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A lightweight pistol like the Ruger LCP or Ruger LC9S/Pro for two-legged threats and bear spray for four-legged threats.
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Dave Workman
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PostTue Aug 22, 2017 4:13 pm 
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bulldog18 wrote:
A lightweight pistol like the Ruger LCP or Ruger LC9S/Pro for two-legged threats and bear spray for four-legged threats.

The LCP and LC9S are chambered for the .380 ACP and 9mm, respectively. Those are pretty light for the back country, and I don't really care for a two-piece gun (pistol with magazine) for the back country.
The weight consideration is understood and acknowledged, but in the long run, a "Mountain gun" in a stout caliber is the better choice, IMHO, if you're going to pack a gun on the trail.

But that's just me talking, and what do I know?
winksmile.gif

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"The essential American soul is hard, isolate, stoic, and a killer." - D.H. Lawrence
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RandyHiker
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PostTue Aug 22, 2017 8:36 pm 
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Bear spray,  it works on various forms of "wildlife" and is cheaper and requires less,skill than a firearm.

Anyone hoping to use a firearm for self defense really needs to spend considerable time at the range developing their skill in order to be effective.

My sister used to manage field biologists in Alaska.  They equip their teams with bear spray and a double barreled shot gun loaded with a single lead ball and magnum powder load cartridges.  The firearm training takes a week and involves a simulated bear that is pulled toward the student at 35 mph to simulate the stress of a actual bear charge.

Shot a griz with any of the peashooter handguns mentioned above and you'll just piss it off.  Might work on a scrawny black bear though.
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DIYSteve
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PostMon Sep 18, 2017 9:17 am 
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Randy, I concur that studies favor bear spray over a handgun. But if one is properly trained and in practice, why not carry both? In grizzly country each of us carry bear spray and I also carry a Ruger LCRx w/3" barrel, a 5-shooter revolver chambered for .38 SPL +P. It weighs less than 1 lb. I use Buffalo Bore Outdoorsman hard cast Keith loads, which BB claims will penetrate a grizzly skull. I gotta quibble with your claim that shooting a handgun "will just piss off" a bear. There is good evidence that a very loud noise will scare off a grizzly bear, e.g., tests with air horns and devices using shotgun shell blanks. Of course, I hope to never have the need to use bear spray or fire my revolver. The best grizzly country travel strategy starts with mitigating the chance of a hostile encounter, e.g., cooking away from camp, letting the bears know you're in the area, proper food storage.

ETA: My research suggests that the most reliable fatal shot to a grizzly is just below its ear.
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