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Dayhike Mike Bad MFKer
Joined: 02 Mar 2003 Posts: 10958 | TRs | Pics Location: Going to Tukwila |
Dancing Hiker wrote: | But letting him purchase equipment, buy a climbing pass, and then changing their minds was assinine if you ask me. Didn't they assess his skills before they took him? |
Therein lies the rub and the point where you and I agree. Maybe they asked him directly what his experience and background were, (and I'm sure they got a totally unbiased and unvarnished opinion if they did ) maybe they didn't assess his skills at all.
And whether the reason for benching him was due to his lack of skills or the fact that he didn't appear to be physically prepared/capable, they made the right choice. It was an unfortunate it took them that long to figure out that he's not ready, but it was the right decision.
"There is only one basic human right, the right to do as you damn well please. And with it comes the only basic human duty, the duty to take the consequences." -P.J. O'Rourke
"Ignorance is natural. Stupidity takes commitment." -Solomon Short
"There is only one basic human right, the right to do as you damn well please. And with it comes the only basic human duty, the duty to take the consequences." -P.J. O'Rourke
"Ignorance is natural. Stupidity takes commitment." -Solomon Short
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mountaineer ordinaire Member
Joined: 07 Dec 2007 Posts: 496 | TRs | Pics
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Dancing Hiker wrote: | If they were experienced climbers, they could have put you in the middle of the rope and taken you up. |
With all due respect:
Rainier is not the type of mountain to "strap in" an inexperienced climber in the middle of a rope with expectations the other two may self-arrest if one falls. More importantly, on such a heavily crevassed mountain, each climber should be capable of performing a crevasse rescue.
In case a reminder's needed:
http://community.seattletimes.nwsource.com/archive/?date=20050708&slug=rainier08m
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jenjen Moderatrix
Joined: 30 Jun 2003 Posts: 7617 | TRs | Pics Location: Sierra stylin |
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jenjen
Moderatrix
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Sun Jul 19, 2009 10:44 am
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The safe, correct choice for the entire climbing party is not always a nice one to make. The climb leader has a responsibility to bring everybody back safely -- not to get everyone to the summit, and not to make everyone feel good and happy.
The leader sussed out Josh's abilities on the way to Muir, and made the decision to leave him at camp because it was the safe decision. Better for one person to be disappointed than to endanger the entire party. That's just the plain, brutal truth.
There's a list my climbing partner used to recite:
1) everybody in the party comes back safe
2) everybody in the party comes back still friends
3) you make the summit
Notice, summiting is last on the list.
If life gives you melons - you might be dyslexic
If life gives you melons - you might be dyslexic
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The Angry Hiker SAR Blacklistee
Joined: 13 Jun 2008 Posts: 2890 | TRs | Pics Location: Kentwila |
They were jealous of your age and wanted the summit all to themselves!
...or maybe you were driving everyone in the group nuts, so they ditched you at Camp Muir. Your nonstop yapping had everyone's nerves on edge, but even the subtle hints to put a sock in your festering cakehole weren't getting through. The frequent stops to fiddle around with your gear were certainly pissing them off. The crappy tent at Camp Muir probably sealed the deal. So instead of being honest and telling you that you're annoying as hell, and that they didn't want you to ruin their experience for them, they spared your feelings and told you it was your age & inexperience. But even then, there was hope. All you had to do was convince the leader that you were mature and responsible enough to continue with them to the summit. You probably could've earned some brownie points if you had been a man and said "Well if you aren't comfortable taking me, then by all mean's don't. This has been a great learning experience for me and I appreciate the opportunity to climb with you guys. Thanks for dragging me along this far, and good luck tomorrow!" Instead, you threw a big baby fit and wallowed in self-pity.
I agree with tigermn:
Personally, I would've ditched your ass back at the ranger station.
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Chief Joseph Member
Joined: 10 Nov 2007 Posts: 7677 | TRs | Pics Location: Verlot-Priest Lake |
You guys can blame Josh all you want, but if these climbers are a member of this board and know of his history, then WTF did thety ask him in the first place? Completely out of line in my opinion.
Again Josh needs to back off, slow down, and stick to scrambling for a few years, have you climbed Mt Forgotten yet Josh? It's on my list for next month. Or did you 'forget' about that one?
Go placidly amid the noise and waste, and remember what comfort there may be in owning a piece thereof.
Go placidly amid the noise and waste, and remember what comfort there may be in owning a piece thereof.
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cartman Member
Joined: 20 Feb 2007 Posts: 2800 | TRs | Pics Location: Fremont |
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cartman
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Sun Jul 19, 2009 11:36 am
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Dancing Hiker wrote: | They could have gone to Muir early in the day, and spent the afternoon learning to self-arrest and some glacier travel skills, much like they would if you went with a guide service. Better yet, knowing Josh had little or no skills, they should have gone the day before and practiced or just left him home in the first place.
But letting him purchase equipment, buy a climbing pass, and then changing their minds was assinine if you ask me. Didn't they assess his skills before they took him? |
They weren't a guide service, and they made the right call. But they should have made it before anyone left the house; or with the clearly expressed caveat that Josh could come up to Muir but no farther.
From the nice pics, it was still a great outing. Time will tell if any lessons were learned. And if I were you, Josh, I'd put TAH on Ignore.
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Bryan K Shameless Peakbagger
Joined: 29 Sep 2005 Posts: 5129 | TRs | Pics Location: Alaska |
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Bryan K
Shameless Peakbagger
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Sun Jul 19, 2009 2:47 pm
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It was nice of your friend to take you to REI so you could get a harness, but I don't believe that learning a few climbing moves is adequate for the dangers that are present on Rainier.
I think it is one's responsibility to inform their hiking partners of one's experience and knowledge before commencing on such a grand adventure, including one's age (if they are a minor).
I'm betting that those who invited Josh up Rainier are not members of NWHikers and are not familiar with other events in Josh's hiking career.
Josh, like many others have said, you are young, slow down.
There are so many mountains out there to climb to help you build up your skill level.
BTW, I am one of the people who made one of the comments that Josh quoted. Josh, I'm sorry if my comment hurt you, I just really don't want to read about you in the paper or here on this site. Take your time, get the training that you need in order to reach a summit like Rainier and enjoy your time in the mountains.
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aywolfpac Member
Joined: 27 Jan 2008 Posts: 1286 | TRs | Pics Location: Burlington, WA |
Glass half full - Wonderful pictures Josh. I don't think I could carry a 52 lb pack across my living room let alone up to Camp Muir.
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Mike Collins Member
Joined: 18 Dec 2001 Posts: 3086 | TRs | Pics
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aywolfpac wrote: | I don't think I could carry a 52 lb pack across my living room let alone up to Camp Muir. |
Josh gets practice in this forum. He has at least three people on his back at any given time. Try to carry around that weight for a while.
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Josh Journey a.k.a Josh Lewis
Joined: 01 Nov 2007 Posts: 4830 | TRs | Pics
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Josh Journey a.k.a Josh Lewis
Joined: 01 Nov 2007 Posts: 4830 | TRs | Pics
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The Angry Hiker wrote: | They were jealous of your age and wanted the summit all to themselves!
...or maybe you were driving everyone in the group nuts, so they ditched you at Camp Muir. Your nonstop yapping had everyone's nerves on edge, but even the subtle hints to put a sock in your festering cakehole weren't getting through. The frequent stops to fiddle around with your gear were certainly pissing them off. The crappy tent at Camp Muir probably sealed the deal. So instead of being honest and telling you that you're annoying as hell, and that they didn't want you to ruin their experience for them, they spared your feelings and told you it was your age & inexperience. But even then, there was hope. All you had to do was convince the leader that you were mature and responsible enough to continue with them to the summit. You probably could've earned some brownie points if you had been a man and said "Well if you aren't comfortable taking me, then by all mean's don't. This has been a great learning experience for me and I appreciate the opportunity to climb with you guys. Thanks for dragging me along this far, and good luck tomorrow!" Instead, you threw a big baby fit and wallowed in self-pity.
I agree with tigermn:
Personally, I would've ditched your ass back at the ranger station. |
Wow wow wow.... First off I did not talk enough to make someone crazy, but perhaps a little too much. Mark tells me you should mainly talk if the leader asks questions. As for him saying you talk alot, he said it very casually, when someone says something important casually, I don't get the message as well. I did not really stop to fiddle with my gear, my food was hanging off the side. As for the "crappy tent" they did not even really see it, and even if they did, they would not have known it was "crappy". As for convincing the leader, his mind was set, even if I told him I was mature, he would probably say no, I told him how I know when to turn around and that I was responsible, but it could very well be a combination of him being responsible and.... well a bit summit feverish and not wanting a member to risk his chance of making it. So in a sense it's understandable, but in another it's kinda like getting ditched at the last second. I did not throw a big baby fit, I waited until they were gone to be sad. Sorry for being sad, you know it really hurt, I guess only babies cry, I was upset because I felt as though it went from great success to a great failure, and that Mark, his Dad and many others would be disappointed with me. I told him good luck and I prayed for him that he and his buddy would be safe. I'm sure you would have ditched me.........
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Josh Journey a.k.a Josh Lewis
Joined: 01 Nov 2007 Posts: 4830 | TRs | Pics
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Bryan wrote: | BTW, I am one of the people who made one of the comments that Josh quoted. Josh, I'm sorry if my comment hurt you, I just really don't want to read about you in the paper or here on this site. Take your time, get the training that you need in order to reach a summit like Rainier and enjoy your time in the mountains. |
Bryan, your apology is much appreciated and accepted! Understood. What frustrated me was the part when you said you were glad I was thrown out of the glacier coarse, and that I threw my chance away, you said it almost as if I did it intentionally. I'm getting more responsible, in this trip the only mistakes were my appearance rather than making a dangerous mistake. Thanks Bryan.
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Chief Joseph Member
Joined: 10 Nov 2007 Posts: 7677 | TRs | Pics Location: Verlot-Priest Lake |
Don't forget about Forgotten, I have been to the meadows twice and to perry creek in May, It is a beautiful hike and now 1 1/2 longer due to logging on the road, I pretty much just a casual hiker approaching 50 and just back into hiking after 20 years away, (during that time I rode an XR250 on mountain trails, moto was my way, walking was boring.
However, a younger guy at work helped to rekindle my hiking interest.
So are you up for Pilchuck in about 2-3 weeks? We usually go on Thursday or Friday. Then after that, don't Forget! Take care,.....out there.
Go placidly amid the noise and waste, and remember what comfort there may be in owning a piece thereof.
Go placidly amid the noise and waste, and remember what comfort there may be in owning a piece thereof.
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Redwic Unlisted Free Agent
Joined: 23 Feb 2009 Posts: 3292 | TRs | Pics Location: Going to the Prom(inence) |
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Redwic
Unlisted Free Agent
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Mon Jul 20, 2009 12:25 am
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Josh wrote: | Bryan, your apology is much appreciated and accepted! Understood. What frustrated me was the part when you said you were glad I was thrown out of the glacier coarse, and that I threw my chance away, you said it almost as if I did it intentionally. I'm getting more responsible, in this trip the only mistakes were my appearance rather than making a dangerous mistake. Thanks Bryan. |
Getting more responsible? This, coming from someone who only several weeks ago disappeared on a moment's notice, while telling nobody where he was going/ his plan and while not taking enough climbing tools (or knowledge), for a insane solo trek to Columbia Peak (or someplace like that). You were kicked out of the GCC MONTHS ago; you are NOT learning from your past mistakes. Something tells me your hiking partners realized you were not ready (physically, mentally, or both) to make a summit attempt of Mount Rainier, but either were not able to determine that, or find a way to politely tell you that, until you were at Camp Muir.
Dude! I don't want to see you be a statistic or in the Obituary sections of the local newspapers. I don't want to have to whip out a trumpet and start playing "Taps" in your memory.
As others have said, SLOW DOWN AND FOCUS ON SMALLER STUFF WITH EXPERIENCED PEOPLE TO BUILD UP THE EXPERIENCE NEEDED. You have a one-year pass for Mount Rainier. You seem determined to summit the mountain. I don't think anyone here is capable of convincing you not to attempt to summit that mountain. Although in my opinion you are not ready for that mountain, you can be building experience and technical knowledge over the next year's time climbing much smaller peaks with experienced people, perhaps with some trips to Camp Muir and/or Camp Sherman in-between. Then make a summit attempt of Mount Rainier with experienced partners next June or July, after a full year of hiking with experienced people on lesser peaks.
60 pounds lighter but not 60 points brighter.
60 pounds lighter but not 60 points brighter.
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RickZman Member
Joined: 05 Sep 2008 Posts: 113 | TRs | Pics Location: Edmonds |
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RickZman
Member
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Mon Jul 20, 2009 7:59 am
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