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Snowdog
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Snowdog
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PostMon Jul 20, 2009 9:53 am 
Hi Josh- I have read some of your reports, but not chimed in until now. While I do appreciate your enthusiasm for the mountains, you must gain some training to move about safely. If you want to climb Rainier so badly- save some money and sign up with one of the guide services. They will provide you with basic skills, and get you there (and back) safely.

'we don't have time for a shortcut'
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Tazz
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PostMon Jul 20, 2009 10:05 am 
sorry for your disappointments Josh. Again people shoot me for being frank... If you had been ready for this trip you would have not been kicked off the summit team!! You are not ready. Until you are ready you will continuously be disappointed because you cannot climb a peak you are not ready for. If you start choosing peaks your capable of you will not be dissapointed. why do i even bother... dizzy.gif embarassedlaugh.gif

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mossy mom
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PostMon Jul 20, 2009 10:16 am 
I’m not a mountain climber but if I ever do decide to try a dangerous summit like Rainer I think I would start working towards it at least a couple of years in advance. First I would learn how to rock climb and spend maybe a year building up my confidence. I would also learn some crevasse, rope and ice axe skills. I would climb several smaller technical peaks such as Mount Olympus. I would spend the six months before the hike getting my body into peak condition. I would probably do things like go up and down Mount Rose (or god forbid Mount Si) with a fully loaded pack and I’d try to do it twice in one day. I would also spend some time training for hiking at such altitudes by going up to Camp Muir a few times and maybe Mount Adams. I might go to the Rocky Mountains where the peaks that you can walk right up (such as Deseret Peak) can be quite high. Right now I am training to go up Mount Adams and I don’t know if I will be up to it in time. Yesterday I gained 4000 feet in elevation (Mount Jupiter) while carrying a pack that weighed 5 pounds more then what I intend to carry up to lunch counter. When I got to the summit I dumped out 25 pounds of water so I could hike down without putting undo stress on my knees. I hope to summit Adams on August 2cd.

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rocketparrotlet
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PostMon Jul 20, 2009 11:19 am 
I didn't think I would do this, but here I am. It's Mark, the same Mark that went on the trip with you. This trip proved some things to me, but the trip report said more than anything else. First of all, it shows that you pity yourself quite a lot, more than I had previously imagined. That doesn't solve anything. Stop feeling sorry for yourself and spend that effort to improve, instead. Learn your lessons instead of crying about them. Then people will be more respectful towards you. Second of all, it shows that you cannot appreciate the things other people do for you as much as you should. My parents drove 340 miles to deliver us and pick us up, and all you can say about that is how you find it "ironic" that my dad would charge you for a quarter of the actual gas cost?! That is disrespectful. You make my father seem like a one-sided, judgmental man. That is not true at all. Remember when I was telling you about how much you depend on other people? Well, you depend on my dad a lot more than you would like to admit. Who drove you to Mt. Erie? Who gave you a job that allowed you to pay for this permit? Who took you to Mt. Adams and then made sure to take you home safe, no matter how angry we were at you? You say "we" a lot, referring to you and I. My feelings are not always the same as yours. I think that many mistakes were made on that trip. I was convinced at the time that you would have been ready to do it, and I'm sure you could have summitted, but this trip report only shows your large dependence on others, a terrible trait in climbing. You should work together as a team, but also be largely self-reliable. And that DOESN'T just mean that you can ride your bike to a mountain and get home safely. That means that you are able to identify and correct your mistakes yourself, instead of letting everyone else do it for you. Do you realize that any post you make here is on the Internet? That means that news gets around... Yesterday, I got an email from the person who was going to take me and my dad on a Sahale climb. He saw your trip report and warned my dad about the dangers of me climbing with you. (I won't give specifics.) It seems as if you have some demons you must face yourself before grappling with more technical peaks. Don't even try to summit Rainier again, or Baker, or Sahale. You're not ready for them yet. Maybe next year. Find/buy yourself a copy of Freedom of the Hills Edition 7. You'll be needing it to learn your knots- I have better things to do than teach unappreciative people how to climb. -Mark

Always looking for a climbing/scrambling partner!
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Josh Journey
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Joined: 01 Nov 2007
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Josh Journey
a.k.a Josh Lewis
PostMon Jul 20, 2009 11:43 am 
Your right. Sorry Mark, if your dad saw this, also tell him that I am sorry. You don't need to help me if you do not want to. Edit: Also I would like to thank your dad and you for what you have tought me and done for me. I rethought this and I sorta... well wasn't so appreciative which I should have been all along, which is another reason why I'm sorry. Tell your dad I say thanks for taking me, and if he doesn't mind I could work for him later this week for the car ride.

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Malachai Constant
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Malachai Constant
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PostMon Jul 20, 2009 12:04 pm 
You guys should relly work this out with PM's rather than on a public forum huh.gif

"You do not laugh when you look at the mountains, or when you look at the sea." Lafcadio Hearn
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Josh Journey
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Josh Journey
a.k.a Josh Lewis
PostMon Jul 20, 2009 12:08 pm 
rocketparrotlet wrote:
This trip proved some things to me, but the trip report said more than anything else. First of all, it shows that you pity yourself quite a lot, more than I had previously imagined. That doesn't solve anything. Stop feeling sorry for yourself and spend that effort to improve, instead. Learn your lessons instead of crying about them. Then people will be more respectful towards you. -Mark
I posted the trip report to say the truth of what happend, although with your dad I could have explained that a little bit nicer. When I was sad, I am not thinking to myself .... "oh I feel bad for myself" it's more or less the opposite. I am more often angry at myself, thinking "you screw up, whats wrong with you, you keep messing up" and it drives me crazy that I keep trying and it seems to keep failin, but in a sense now I realize this trip wasn't as much of a failure as I thought. Not only did I learn but Camp Muir... it by it self is pretty good. I learn though me being upset, perhaps a bit harder than most, but eventually it works, the emotion is so powerful when people fill me head with bad thoughts that I can't always think strait. And if people don't want to be respectful to me for being upset... well then so be it. But I still am learning my lesson.

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Josh Journey
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Josh Journey
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PostMon Jul 20, 2009 12:08 pm 
Malachai Constant wrote:
You guys should relly work this out with PM's rather than on a public forum huh.gif
As you wish.... sorry folks about all this. I spoke I guess a little too much, Mark wanted to say that his dad was good, and that I made him look bad which I appologize for, when I said ironic, my mom or brother wouldn't charge my friends for getting a ride, but still I should have had more appreciation. Oh by the way, it was 240 miles, but still it was nice of your parents. But it would have been cheaper to take the bus. lol.gif But would have taken longer, and this last part about the bus is not to be disrespect, but well.... it's true.

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rocketparrotlet
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PostMon Jul 20, 2009 12:21 pm 
Josh wrote:
Malachai Constant wrote:
You guys should relly work this out with PM's rather than on a public forum huh.gif
As you wish.... sorry folks about all this. I spoke I guess a little too much, Mark wanted to say that his dad was good, and that I made him look bad which I appologize for, when I said ironic, my mom or brother wouldn't charge my friends for getting a ride, but still I should have had more appreciation. Oh by the way, it was 240 miles, but still it was nice of your parents. But it would have been cheaper to take the bus. lol.gif But would have taken longer, and this last part about the bus is not to be disrespect, but well.... it's true.
You're missing the point. I found out about this because my dad got an email of concern from someone, read the trip report, and then showed me. We were all pretty disappointed when we saw it. Remember you were talking about how much you dislike backstabbers? Seems like you're doing the same to us. @Malachai: Working it out on a public forum helps to display multiple points of view to everyone, so that they have a fuller understanding of what is going on. -Mark

Always looking for a climbing/scrambling partner!
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Josh Journey
a.k.a Josh Lewis



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Josh Journey
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PostMon Jul 20, 2009 12:28 pm 
Mark Struab wrote:
Remember you were talking about how much you dislike backstabbers? Seems like you're doing the same to us. -Mark
Well I guess me saying that was sorta so... well if your dad would like, I could work for more if he wants me to. So I guess then I'll try to make up for that then.... sound good?

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mossy mom
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PostMon Jul 20, 2009 2:16 pm 
Seems pretty damn weird to me to charge your child's 16 year old friend for the privilege of riding in the same car when you drive your child to the mountain. Josh might not be appreciative, but it still sounds like he needs different friends.

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Dayhike Mike
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Dayhike Mike
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PostMon Jul 20, 2009 2:43 pm 
Mark, Great posts. Honest, succinct, and well put. If you're roughly the same age as Josh, my hat's off to you and you definitely make me feel a whole lot better about the American education system. It's really good to see literate, coherent, thoughtful discussion from a new generation. up.gif up.gif Hope your dad and you have a good time on Sahale!

"There is only one basic human right, the right to do as you damn well please. And with it comes the only basic human duty, the duty to take the consequences." -P.J. O'Rourke "Ignorance is natural. Stupidity takes commitment." -Solomon Short
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Dayhike Mike
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Dayhike Mike
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PostMon Jul 20, 2009 2:47 pm 
Pest wrote:
Seems pretty damn weird to me to charge your child's 16 year old friend for the privilege of riding in the same car when you drive your child to the mountain.
I'd disagree. Why should one family have to shoulder the entire financial burden of a trip? To be fair, one parent should have dropped them off, while the other picked them up at the end of the trip. At the very least, the costs should have been equally split. FWIW - A quarter of the cost of gas is nothing compared to the cost of the time spent driving down and back and wear and tear on the car. BTW - I finally got around to actually reading the whole trip report and I'm afraid you've got some serious issues with perspective there, Josh. Especially the entire last paragraph. The thought that they bought you dinner and dessert "just to make themselves look good" is insane and comes off as totally ungrateful. And the constant use of "we" (noted by Mark) to rope him in on your thoughts and opinions ("we thougt they were greedy, wanting the summit to themselves", etc.) is completely disingenuous, and a true disservice to your "friend" and the kind people that offered to give you a crack at summiting Tahoma. Not good.

"There is only one basic human right, the right to do as you damn well please. And with it comes the only basic human duty, the duty to take the consequences." -P.J. O'Rourke "Ignorance is natural. Stupidity takes commitment." -Solomon Short
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Josh Journey
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Josh Journey
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PostMon Jul 20, 2009 5:00 pm 
I said it could be that way.... all in all I think there nice guys, but I am uncertain of there dessicioun about not letting me summit. I won't judge them, so I cannot say wether going with them was a good idea or not, as for off the mountain they are nice people. Mark's mom drove us there, Mark's dad drove us back. I appreciated the climbers bringing us there and back, and I still thanked them, I also thanked Mark's dad, I appreciated him taking me home, but I should have been more appreciative, and now am.

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Tazz
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PostMon Jul 20, 2009 5:04 pm 
how did you get invited josh? cc?

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