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joker
seeker
Joined: 12 Aug 2006
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Location: state of confusion |
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joker
seeker
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 Tue Oct 13, 2009 10:49 am |
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like2thruhike
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Joined: 28 May 2009
Posts: 1288 | TRs | Pics
Location: Seattle |
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like2thruhike
Member
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Tue Oct 13, 2009 11:18 am The low down on down...
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Today I'm so tempted to head out and buy a colder rated bag.Yet I know I bought down booties,mittens,balaclava for a reason.But for light weight sake,I didn't pack them last weekend. I'm reluctant to lay down 425 bucks on a light weight down bag.There's big money in light weight gear,usually. Thanks for the knowledge. Have time for a few more questions  Use a down wash vs detergent,tennis balls vs a clean shoe,a vapor barrior vs a polyester sheet???
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Slide Alder Slayer
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Joined: 14 Jan 2002
Posts: 1960 | TRs | Pics
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Like2thruhike, down is very resilient and strong, be that as it may, after so many compressions, I assume in the standard stuff sack and not over compressed to the point that the down clusters were snapped, so the question is how is the loft in your bag?
Your use is an exception to the rule in how gear is used being a thru hiker and it’s hard to tell since no mention is made of the ground pad used in these conditions if the Helium is just getting towards the end of it’s life as you hypothesized or other factors are involved.
PS no manufacturer recommends tennis balls or anything like that in the dryer, just every ten minutes or so pat down the baffles and gently pull apart the clusters, works great.
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DIYSteve
seeking hygge
Joined: 06 Mar 2007
Posts: 12655 | TRs | Pics
Location: here now |
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DIYSteve
seeking hygge
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Tue Oct 13, 2009 11:29 am Re: The low down on down...
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| like2thruhike wrote: | | Have time for a few more questions . . . a vapor barrior vs a polyester sheet??? |
A VB will add considerable warmth and, IMO, VB's are required for multi-day cold weather trips because a VB will trap condensation that would otherwise foul the down. The amount of body moisture emitted varies greatly from person to person. It's a big deal for me -- if I don't use a VB in cold weather, the foot of my bag is damp every damn time, and sometimes quite damp. With a VB, the foot of my bag stays dry.
As an additional means to control down fouling by body moisture, FF winter bags are made with an eVent "breathing tunnel," i.e., the inside of the hood and collar are made of eVent which protects the down from the inevitable condensation resulting from breathing. The design works great.
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like2thruhike
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Joined: 28 May 2009
Posts: 1288 | TRs | Pics
Location: Seattle |
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like2thruhike
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Tue Oct 13, 2009 4:19 pm I went "down" town to check out bag options.....
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And I came up with the idea that I need to make due with what I have.I'll clean it properly,a guy at REI referred me to a down cleaning service: www.allaboutdown.com It's actually 36 bucks to have it cleaned,that's a good price yet I'm a "do it myself'er" on a budget. I'm going to experiment with clothing combinations and make a fleece liner quilt for the bag. Thanks for all the info,Bruce
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Kat
Turtle Hiker
Joined: 05 Oct 2003
Posts: 2560 | TRs | Pics
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Kat
Turtle Hiker
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Wed Oct 14, 2009 11:03 am |
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Just thought a comparison might be helpful to you. My pardner is currently using a Marmot Helium 15F bag. He was plenty warm last Sat when overnight temps went down to 20F BUT:
*2 person double-wall tent was used (Stephenson) with 2 people in it. This is a warm tent.
*He had a closed cell foam pad - full length under a NeoAir short inflatable pad.
*He was sleeping in expedition-weight long johns & shirt, plus down jacket, pants, booties; and a poly balaclava.
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DIYSteve
seeking hygge
Joined: 06 Mar 2007
Posts: 12655 | TRs | Pics
Location: here now |
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DIYSteve
seeking hygge
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Wed Oct 14, 2009 11:06 am Re: I went "down" town to check out bag options.....
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| like2thruhike wrote: | | fleece liner |
???
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Slide Alder Slayer
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Joined: 14 Jan 2002
Posts: 1960 | TRs | Pics
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No disrespect intended Kat but my 2R and 3R have single wall ends and that is the standard way Stephenson makes their tents and I have not found them to be “warm winter tents” and neither compare in warmth to my Hilleberg that is fully double walled.
Having stated that there are tricks to the trade that can make Stephenson’s warmer that Big Steve had mentioned many times on this site.
I agree with Big Steve’s questioning a liner for additional warmth as every thing I have read tends to indicate that their advertised increased in temperature rating are over stated not to mention the additional weight.
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GeoHiker
Rocky Walker
Joined: 26 Feb 2005
Posts: 6033 | TRs | Pics
Location: Off the Deep End |
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GeoHiker
Rocky Walker
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Wed Oct 14, 2009 12:45 pm |
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Take a couple of the 4x4 inch 12 hr Mega Warmers and you won't have a cold nights sleep. 
You call some place paradise, kiss it goodbye......Eagles
You call some place paradise, kiss it goodbye......Eagles
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Kat
Turtle Hiker
Joined: 05 Oct 2003
Posts: 2560 | TRs | Pics
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Kat
Turtle Hiker
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Wed Oct 14, 2009 1:53 pm |
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| Slide Alder Slayer wrote: | | No disrespect intended Kat but my 2R and 3R have single wall ends and that is the standard way Stephenson makes their tents and I have not found them to be “warm winter tents” and neither compare in warmth to my Hilleberg that is fully double walled.
Having stated that there are tricks to the trade that can make Stephenson’s warmer that Big Steve had mentioned many times on this site. |
None taken. Actually you can order a standard Stephenson 2X - fully single wall, or standard Stephenson 2R - hybrid single/double wall like you have. Or, go with the option of double end liners - which I did on my 2C so mine is fully double wall.
I have also owned a 2R and a Hilleberg Nallo 2 & I can't say the single wall on the ends of the 2R made it significantly less warm than the Hilleberg but YMMV.
My comment about the Stephenson being a warm tent was in relation to it being a double wall tent versus say, a summer more mesh-style tent like a tarptent - which I should have made more clear. I leave my airy 16oz Six Moons at home this time of year!
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Slide Alder Slayer
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Joined: 14 Jan 2002
Posts: 1960 | TRs | Pics
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Thanks Kat, I thought you had a double walled Stephenson, My Hillegerg is the Unna.
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DIYSteve
seeking hygge
Joined: 06 Mar 2007
Posts: 12655 | TRs | Pics
Location: here now |
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DIYSteve
seeking hygge
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Wed Oct 14, 2009 2:33 pm |
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| Slide Alder Slayer wrote: | | Having stated that there are tricks to the trade that can make Stephenson’s warmer that Big Steve had mentioned many times on this site. |
Many times?  How about one more time? Leaning your packs up against the single wall larger end and leaning boots against the walls of the smaller end practically renders a 2R into a full double wall tent. Try to not block the vents.
I'm with Kat the the 2R is a very warm winter tent. The double wall middle is designed to trap dead air*, and the interior wall has an aluminized coating that reflects body heat back into the tent interior. Those features are not on any other tent of which I am aware. (*Note that Stephenson tents do not have a separate fly, but instead have a permanently sewn double wall.)
My experience with Hilleburg tents is limited, but, if one uses my tricks (which, as SAS observed, I've described "many times"  ), I would think that difference in winter performance between Hilleburg and Stephenson is marginal. Both are great winter tents if properly staked, etc.
| Slide Alder Slayer wrote: | | I agree with Big Steve’s questioning a liner for additional warmth. . . |
Note that I suggested a VB liner for cold weather. My ??? was in response to a suggestion of a fleece liner.
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like2thruhike
Member
Joined: 28 May 2009
Posts: 1288 | TRs | Pics
Location: Seattle |
Yea,I agree that the fleece liner bags are over rated...I just thought since I had the fleece right here,I'd sew me up a simple bag,so I did last night. During that night in question,I wished I had a thermometer because my 2 quart Gatorade bottle froze solid in no time. Since washing and drying my bag I presume the loss of loft was the reason why I needed to have on a 7 layers on top,polypro bottoms,and my Columbia convertible pants as well.I did have on one pair of thin socks and an old poly hat. All of this inside a OR Alpine Bivy,on a Ridge Rest,on a sheet of Tyvek nestled in a sizable depression out of any breeze.It was like sleeping in a cradle,cozy I might add that I usually have issues with my fingers and toes.I neglected to pack mittens and thicker socks. Ironically last night I spent some time looking for zero rated bags online Marmot,Campmor,Western Mountaineering,and ProMountainSports. I guess I'm just going to have to accept that if I wanna play,I'm gunna have to pay...Zero rated bags under 3 pounds are spendy yet I can't see packing a heavy weight in my Golite Trek. Or maybe I could borrow Three Frogs dogs for their company and body heat???
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. I wondered about lower temps with one of these systems. And about side sleeping - Nutatak at least has those straps so you can supposedly get the bag more or less sealed to the ground - I wondered whether a light bivy would be enough to make the system OK for side sleeping in 3- seasons.
It's been a long time since the "Y" in that label applied 