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Layback
Proud Papa
Joined: 16 Mar 2007
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Location: Between a Rope and a Hard Place
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 Mon Oct 19, 2009 8:00 am Expanding the Enchantments Permit Area? |
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http://www.fs.fed.us/r6/wenatchee/passes/enchantments/
| USFS wrote: |
Expanding the Permit Area
We are also proposing to expand the permit area to include the Ingalls Lake , Headlight Basin , and Mt. Stuart areas. The soonest this could be implemented would be 2010. These areas sustain high use levels, in excess of what the fragile subalpine plant communities can support. A NEPA (legal) decision was made in 1993 to limit entry to these areas, but we have stalled implementing this decision for a variety of reasons. If implemented, the Cle Elum Ranger Station would likely assist us with issuing daily permits and serving as a venue for hikers to pick up their permits. |
What do you think about more restrictions? |
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whistlingmarmot
Sustainable Resource
Joined: 21 Jul 2003
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Location: Tacoma, WA
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| Is asshat the nwhikers Word of the Month? |
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BigSteve
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Location: here now
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| They've talked about permitting Headlight Basin and environs for more than two decades. A Chant-like overnight permit system might be warranted after the snow melts out of the basin, but are they really talking about a lottery system for day permits? |
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Dayhike Mike
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Joined: 02 Mar 2003
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Location: Going to Tukwila
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I don't know how I'd handle the problem. It's tough...
Most of the visitation in the area is day use, not overnight, so I could see how simply limiting overnight visitation wouldn't necessarily have a huge impact in the amount of visitation the area sees.
But I agree that it's overrun and overused, and that something ought to be done.
| whistlingmarmot wrote: |
| Is asshat the nwhikers Word of the Month? |
Word of the Month? No, no, my aspirations are much higher. Word of the year, maybe. The concept of having one's head far enough up one's own ass to be able to wear it as a hat is truly enlightening, revolutionary.
(Asshats themselves claim it's the ultimate in ultralight headgear for cool or rainy weather. I'm not so convinced.)
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"There is only one basic human right, the right to do as you damn well please. And with it comes the only basic human duty, the duty to take the consequences." -P.J. O'Rourke
"Ignorance is natural. Stupidity takes commitment." -Solomon Short |
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Kim Brown
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BigSteve
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Location: here now
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| Mon Oct 19, 2009 10:31 am |
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| Of course, the majority of the visitors to Headlight Basin and Ingalls Lake are day trippers, but, based on what I've seen, the trashing of vegetation in Headlight Basin is largely due to the hordes of campers and the presence of numerous trails between Ingalls Pass and the lake. The campsite trashing problem, as I see it, could be addressed by designating a few campsites and dealing out permits for those on a Chant type permit system. The braided trails result somewhat from people wandering all over the place on the lingering June/July snows, and that could be addressed by marking the official trail. |
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Tom
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Joined: 15 Dec 2001
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| Mon Oct 19, 2009 10:50 am |
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| Quote: |
| We are also proposing to expand the permit area to include the Ingalls Lake [snip] and Mt. Stuart areas |
I understand the rationale for including Headlight Basin in the Enchantments permit area but anything beyond that would seem to be going too far. Ingalls Lake is already day use only so what's the need? I'm not sure I like the proposal. As far as asshats, enforce the existing rules without exception and increase the fines, i.e. put up another sign just past the trailhead that states $500 fine for bringing dogs or building a campfire. |
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touron
Members Only
Joined: 15 Sep 2003
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Location: roadside attraction
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| Mon Oct 19, 2009 12:42 pm awash in revenues |
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Rather than more time and personel spent enforcing an ever-widening Enchantments area (does anyone really think it will stop at Ingalls?), why not use these additional resources to brush and log existing trails, to reclaim trails that are beginning to disappear, and to create new trails to grand destinations?
When I look at the beautiful job that was done on the new trail up to Rattlesnake Ridge, I think to myself, "I wonder what would happen if they applied the same artful techniques to some of those rooty, rocky, hardscrabbly trails on the Middle Fork." 
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Touron is a nougat of Arabic origin made with almonds and honey or sugar, without which it would just not be Christmas in Spain. |
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Kim Brown
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Rattlesnake & Mid Fk are different land managers, way different terrain, so it's apples & oranges. But I see what you mean. (but many people hate engineered and re-built trails).
The permit system in Headlight Basin is mandated by NEPA findings - I assume the EA was initiated by the FS - at a time the FS was probably more flush with money than now, and had the resources to implement it.
I wonder how long the 1993 mandate can be pushed aside until it's determined the FS is in default of NEPA requirements...? |
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JimK
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The 1993 deal was to enact extremely limited day permits for most all of the Alpine Lakes.
Earlier thread
That is still my worst nightmare.
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Hiking Northwest |
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Tom
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| Limited day permits? Holy f###ing sh##! I guess I didn't read the quote in the original post carefully enough. I agree, this would be a nightmare. |
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JimK
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How does 10 day permits per day with 7 doled out in February and 3 held for the day of the trip sound? Course you would have to go get it when the office is open and pay your money. No more early starts and no way to figure where you would have to drive to find a spot. On the positive side we would not need big parking lots with only 10 permits. 
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Hiking Northwest |
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gyngve
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Joined: 26 Nov 2003
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| JimK wrote: |
| How does 10 day permits per day with 7 doled out in February and 3 held for the day of the trip sound? Course you would have to go get it when the office is open and pay your money. No more early starts and no way to figure where you would have to drive to find a spot. On the positive side we would not need big parking lots with only 10 permits. |
That will get people killed. They'll get permits in advance, the weather will crap out, and they'll go anyway, because they cannot get permits day-of.
And I find it hard to believe that alpine climbers who day-trip north-side routes on Stuart are damaging the alpine (compared to other groups) and need to be restricted. It would be unprecedented. |
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JimK
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Don't know if the current proposal includes day limits on Headlight Basin. If so, it will make all the other Teanaway trails much more crowded. Right now at least half of all the hikers in the valley are at the end of the road. One crowded area means the other dozen trailheads are not all that crowded. I will hate to see that.
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Kim Brown
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Joined: 13 Jul 2009
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I highly doubt this is something to get all in a lather about. That paragraph has been in the Enchantments section of the Wenatchee website for years.
On the other hand, we do need something to bitch about around here... |
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