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Layback Cascades Expatriate
Joined: 16 Mar 2007 Posts: 5712 | TRs | Pics Location: Back East |
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Layback
Cascades Expatriate
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Wed Jun 09, 2010 4:47 pm
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I beleive threads with guns in them are by definition gun threads.
Also, the question is a dumb one because nobody in their right mind would choose a wolf's life over their own.
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Malachai Constant Member
Joined: 13 Jan 2002 Posts: 16098 | TRs | Pics Location: Back Again Like A Bad Penny |
The question assumes all sots of things e.g. that you are armed, that you know your life is in jepordy, that you can in fact shoot the wolf etc.
"You do not laugh when you look at the mountains, or when you look at the sea." Lafcadio Hearn
"You do not laugh when you look at the mountains, or when you look at the sea." Lafcadio Hearn
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Dogpatch Member
Joined: 17 Aug 2003 Posts: 1588 | TRs | Pics Location: the dryside |
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Dogpatch
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Wed Jun 09, 2010 5:02 pm
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Dave Workman wrote: | It's a question I dropped into a gun forum the other day.
As noted there, I'm trying to gauge reaction, perhaps to determine whether one group is more or less thoughtful v. reactionary than the other. |
So you're trying to find out if NWHikers is more thoughtful/reactionary than the gun forum? I don't think your question will help much. Nobody's going to say please Mr. Wolf, eat me, since I just can't bear to hurt you.
On the other hand, the hypothetical situation is bogus. Wolf attacks are exceedingly rare, and occur if the animal is sick or otherwise distressed. It's not something to worry about if you're out hiking.
Better to worry about getting in a car wreck on the way to the trailhead.
And for your research: I don't carry a gun.
EDIT: I don't have a problem with hunters, or with hikers carrying firearms. I figure that's their right. (Different situation in the city, of course.)
"Outside of a dog, a book is man's best friend.
Inside of a dog, it's too dark to read." – Groucho Marx
"Outside of a dog, a book is man's best friend.
Inside of a dog, it's too dark to read." – Groucho Marx
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Dave Workman Member
Joined: 06 Aug 2006 Posts: 3699 | TRs | Pics Location: In the woods, by the big tree |
Layback:
You'd be amazed at what some people might "say" they would or would not do.
Mal:
Point taken. Of course, the question is one of a presumptive nature, but I think I'm getting a bit more thoughtful reaction here than over on the other forum, where there does not seem to be much thought going into the reactions at all.
But, I've been reading the "Wolves need help NOW" thread off an on for months, and this seemed like a good venue to pop the question.
Dogpatch:
The two wolf attacks specifically mentioned in the query did not involve "sick or otherwise distressed" wolves to my knowledge, so your inclusion of that remark is, at best, a straw man.
Up to four wolves were reportedly involved in the death of Candice Berner in Alaska, and Kenton Carnegie was offed by healthy wolves as well in Ontario 2 1/2 years ago.
Perhaps this thread is a means of reminding ourselves that there are unintended consequences to many things we do, and maybe I''m trying to gauge whether we can confront that nd get beyond it, rather than engage in denial, about ourselves and about wolves.
"The essential American soul is hard, isolate, stoic, and a killer. It has never yet melted." - D.H. Lawrence
"The essential American soul is hard, isolate, stoic, and a killer. It has never yet melted." - D.H. Lawrence
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Slugman It’s a Slugfest!
Joined: 27 Mar 2003 Posts: 16874 | TRs | Pics
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Slugman
It’s a Slugfest!
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Wed Jun 09, 2010 5:47 pm
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I would kill anyone or anything in self defense if I felt I had to. I would even kill a person who attacked my dog, if it was absolutely necessary to end the attack. So, a wolf? Sure. Bear? Yep. Psychotic meth-head? Ya sure, you betcha. No gun right now, I would have to use pepper spray followed by a knife. I am considering getting a gun now that they are allowed in the national parks, but wolves have nothing to do with that decision. Nor bears, etc. I think the most likely self-defense use of a gun would be to show some human that I was not the best target for his crime spree right now, or to fire a warning shot to deter an animal attack. I would avoid killing anything if I could. (The national park thing: if I were to carry a gun, I want to carry it all the time while hiking, due to Murphy's Law.)
PS: I understand what Dave meant by this not being a gun thread. The real question isn't about guns, though guns may be involved by the nature of the situation postulated. Imagine if you had a button you could push and the wolf or whatever would drop dead. The principle is still the same.
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Malachai Constant Member
Joined: 13 Jan 2002 Posts: 16098 | TRs | Pics Location: Back Again Like A Bad Penny |
IMO anyone who says they would not defend them selves if they have the ability and opportunity is either lying or certifiable. if the later, they will soon be removed from the gene pool.
"You do not laugh when you look at the mountains, or when you look at the sea." Lafcadio Hearn
"You do not laugh when you look at the mountains, or when you look at the sea." Lafcadio Hearn
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Dogpatch Member
Joined: 17 Aug 2003 Posts: 1588 | TRs | Pics Location: the dryside |
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Dogpatch
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Wed Jun 09, 2010 6:05 pm
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Dave Workman wrote: | Dogpatch:
The two wolf attacks specifically mentioned in the query did not involve "sick or otherwise distressed" wolves to my knowledge, so your inclusion of that remark is, at best, a straw man. |
Thanks, I read the links you just posted. According to the article, the woman in Alaska was the only known wolf fatality in the US in modern times. So that makes wolf attack exceedingly rare, as I posted. "Sick or otherwise distressed"--does anyone have any real information about the wolves involved in this attack? It does sound like a scary situation for the townspeople.
Human/predator interaction will probably become more of an issue as the population explosion takes hold. We see that here with cougars and bear showing up in the suburbs. I'm still not ready to carry a gun, though.
"Outside of a dog, a book is man's best friend.
Inside of a dog, it's too dark to read." – Groucho Marx
"Outside of a dog, a book is man's best friend.
Inside of a dog, it's too dark to read." – Groucho Marx
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tmatlack Member
Joined: 21 Aug 2007 Posts: 2854 | TRs | Pics
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tmatlack
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Wed Jun 09, 2010 6:46 pm
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Comrades,
Can't say. Don't carry. Can't hit squat. Met many rattlers in AZ hiking and never croaked any of them...but, I do hate those Mojave rattlers very very much.
Tom
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509 Member
Joined: 03 Oct 2007 Posts: 998 | TRs | Pics Location: 509 |
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509
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Wed Jun 09, 2010 7:29 pm
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Ditto's with what Treswarper said with 40 years.
I do carry a gun, but only in the fall to remove noxious avian birds from our beautiful shrub-steppe ecosystems.
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treeswarper Alleged Sockpuppet!
Joined: 25 Dec 2006 Posts: 11279 | TRs | Pics Location: Don't move here |
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treeswarper
Alleged Sockpuppet!
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Wed Jun 09, 2010 8:05 pm
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Layback wrote: | I beleive threads with guns in them are by definition gun threads.
Also, the question is a dumb one because nobody in their right mind would choose a wolf's life over their own. |
Not necessarily. You could be carrying a bow and arrows. Would you shoot a wolf with an arrow in self defense? If you were carrying a bow and arrows?
What's especially fun about sock puppets is that you can make each one unique and individual, so that they each have special characters. And they don't have to be human––animals and aliens are great possibilities
What's especially fun about sock puppets is that you can make each one unique and individual, so that they each have special characters. And they don't have to be human––animals and aliens are great possibilities
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graywolf Member
Joined: 03 Feb 2005 Posts: 808 | TRs | Pics Location: Sequim |
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graywolf
Member
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Wed Jun 09, 2010 8:49 pm
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I would shoot in self defense. However, in 41 years of backcountry travel (hiking, backpacking, climbing, kayaking, cross country skiing) I have never packed a gun, even though I do have a permit to carry.
On the other hand, I have packed a gun in "civilization"; humans have been much more of a potential threat than any wild animal I have ever been around.
The only easy day was yesterday...
The only easy day was yesterday...
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Cascade Hunter Member
Joined: 08 Jun 2010 Posts: 96 | TRs | Pics
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My grandfather always told me that the only animals to be afraid of are the two legged kind. Boy was he wrong.
I got charged by a black bear in the green horn mountains in CA in 2002 while on a mule deer hunting trip. I shot it dead with my 10mm S&W 1006. He was running at me full speed, foam and drool dripping from his mouth. I didn't wait to see if it was a false charge. He could have killed me.
Moral of the story: Only a fool goes into the wilderness unarmed.
I have never had a problem with wolves though. But I won't take any chances.
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Chief Joseph Member
Joined: 10 Nov 2007 Posts: 7710 | TRs | Pics Location: Verlot-Priest Lake |
Yes, I would shoot a wolf or any other living being that put my life or the lives of my loved ones in a potential life threatening situation.
Go placidly amid the noise and waste, and remember what comfort there may be in owning a piece thereof.
Go placidly amid the noise and waste, and remember what comfort there may be in owning a piece thereof.
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Josh Journey a.k.a Josh Lewis
Joined: 01 Nov 2007 Posts: 4836 | TRs | Pics
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I will admit, if I had to, I would. After all, the wolf struck first, perhaps I might go for the leg or something, but then if it still kept going... well... you get the idea. I try to be anice guy to nature, but I don't put with wolf bullies.
But the odds of me having a gun are slim, if anything I would have to use my ice axe.
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jimmylegs "BRB...JK."
Joined: 11 Oct 2007 Posts: 200 | TRs | Pics Location: Boring, Ore |
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jimmylegs
"BRB...JK."
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Thu Jun 10, 2010 7:33 am
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Cascade Hunter wrote: | I got charged by a black bear in the green horn mountains in CA in 2002 while on a mule deer hunting trip. I shot it dead with my 10mm S&W 1006. He was running at me full speed, foam and drool dripping from his mouth. I didn't wait to see if it was a false charge. He could have killed me.
Moral of the story: Only a fool goes into the wilderness unarmed. |
by that logic maybe the moral of the story is only a fool goes to the green horn mountains of CA. or only a fool hunts mule deer. anyway, i'd say by your standards 98% of the people posting here are fools
guns don't kill people, blood loss and organ damage do.
guns don't kill people, blood loss and organ damage do.
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