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HunterConservationist
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Joined: 31 Jul 2008
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Location: Renton, WA, USA |
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Blue Dome
Now with Retsyn
Joined: 12 Aug 2004
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Location: Cleaning up the dogma. |
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Blue Dome
Now with Retsyn
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 Mon Feb 28, 2011 4:01 pm |
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| bopack wrote: | | There are many that try and many that succeed in at least cutting their use and conserving. |
I'd like to think so, but it's tough to quantify that. For years there has been a large, laudable marketing effort to make it "hip" to personally conserve, but how successful has that really been?
It's been argued that our personal behavior is not enough to make a notable difference -- that real change requires government mandate. The market could use sincere help from government to spark change, but as long as Big Oil has its death grip on our energy infrastructure and our government, that won't happen anytime soon.
“I never give them hell. I just tell the truth and they think it's hell.”
— Harry S. Truman
“I never give them hell. I just tell the truth and they think it's hell.”
— Harry S. Truman
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Dayhike Mike
Bad MFKer
Joined: 02 Mar 2003
Posts: 10958 | TRs | Pics
Location: Going to Tukwila |
Arkansas Earthquakes Could Be Man-Made
"The small earthquakes that struck north central Arkansas could be from a combination of natural and man-made activity. Some experts think that pumping water into the ground as part of the extraction process of natural gas could cause local seismic events."
"There is only one basic human right, the right to do as you damn well please. And with it comes the only basic human duty, the duty to take the consequences." -P.J. O'Rourke
"Ignorance is natural. Stupidity takes commitment." -Solomon Short
"There is only one basic human right, the right to do as you damn well please. And with it comes the only basic human duty, the duty to take the consequences." -P.J. O'Rourke
"Ignorance is natural. Stupidity takes commitment." -Solomon Short
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Allison
Feckless Swooner
Joined: 17 Dec 2001
Posts: 12287 | TRs | Pics
Location: putting on my Nikes before the comet comes |
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Allison
Feckless Swooner
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Tue Mar 01, 2011 10:15 am |
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Ouch!
www.allisonoutside.com
follow me on Twitter! @AllisonLWoods
www.allisonoutside.com
follow me on Twitter! @AllisonLWoods
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Blue Dome
Now with Retsyn
Joined: 12 Aug 2004
Posts: 3144 | TRs | Pics
Location: Cleaning up the dogma. |
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Blue Dome
Now with Retsyn
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Wed Mar 02, 2011 1:22 am |
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From that link:
| Quote: | | Salt water is often a by-product of natural gas extraction, and often the simplest thing to do is simply pump it back into the ground, as the water itself is often toxic. |
Nice. 
“I never give them hell. I just tell the truth and they think it's hell.”
— Harry S. Truman
“I never give them hell. I just tell the truth and they think it's hell.”
— Harry S. Truman
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DIYSteve
seeking hygge
Joined: 06 Mar 2007
Posts: 12655 | TRs | Pics
Location: here now |
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DIYSteve
seeking hygge
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Wed Mar 02, 2011 4:16 am |
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Relax. The free market will work out all the problems 
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moonspots
Happy Curmudgeon
Joined: 03 Feb 2007
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Location: North Dakota |
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moonspots
Happy Curmudgeon
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Wed Mar 02, 2011 11:51 am |
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| Blue Dome wrote: |
From that link:
| Quote: | | Salt water is often a by-product of natural gas extraction, and often the simplest thing to do is simply pump it back into the ground, as the water itself is often toxic. |
Nice. |
Well, before we shake our heads and wag our fingers, let's think about this somewhat. You would have them do what with it, exactly? Run it through a treatment facility perhaps? And if so, then do what with whatever they extracted from the water, and again, what to do with the water? I doubt that without some serious processing, it would be fit to use. The plant would cost many millions of dollars (my guess, but I doubt that I'm wrong here), and the risk of a spill would still be there. Unlikely, but worth consideration.
Further, what is being pumped back into the ground is probably about the same health risk as what's being pumped out in the first place. Good thing that we're removing the lightweight stuff (that might migrate to the surface some centruy), and are replacing it with something of a greater specific gravity.
And, unless you do not use gasoline/diesel, plastic, vaseline or computers among many other items that are manufactured by the use of oil, and you don't use anything that has to be brought to your doorstep by any method other than walking, I think that your dog in this fight already has a red tag in his ear.
"Out, OUT you demons of Stupidity"! - St Dogbert, patron Saint of Technology
"Out, OUT you demons of Stupidity"! - St Dogbert, patron Saint of Technology
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Blue Dome
Now with Retsyn
Joined: 12 Aug 2004
Posts: 3144 | TRs | Pics
Location: Cleaning up the dogma. |
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Blue Dome
Now with Retsyn
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Wed Mar 02, 2011 3:56 pm |
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| Blue Dome wrote: | | Quote: | | Salt water is often a by-product of natural gas extraction, and often the simplest thing to do is simply pump it back into the ground, as the water itself is often toxic. |
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| moonspots wrote: | | You would have them do what with it, exactly? |
Not to have to deal with such poison in the first place, because our government will have had the moral courage and common sense to begin serious large-scale efforts to wean us off a fossil fuel economy, by creating a cultural, technical, and corporate environment where that would be accomplished.
Unfortunately for now, the fact that the fossil fuel industry owns our government makes that unlikely.
| moonspots wrote: | | And, unless you do not use gasoline/diesel, plastic, vaseline or computers among many other items that are manufactured by the use of oil... I think that your dog in this fight already has a red tag in his ear. |
Not going to list my personal effort to reduce my fossil fuel consumption, but rest assured it's more than most in our society.
In any case, the old and stale argument of you-use-oil-so-you're-guilty doesn't wash. Our government, owned by the fossil fuel industry, makes it very difficult to thrive in our society without consuming fossil fuel and fossil fuel products.
Reducing personal consumption is not enough -- our government must encourage cultural change and mandate technical and corporate change for real benefits to be realized.
“I never give them hell. I just tell the truth and they think it's hell.”
— Harry S. Truman
“I never give them hell. I just tell the truth and they think it's hell.”
— Harry S. Truman
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moonspots
Happy Curmudgeon
Joined: 03 Feb 2007
Posts: 2456 | TRs | Pics
Location: North Dakota |
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moonspots
Happy Curmudgeon
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Thu Mar 03, 2011 6:08 am |
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| Blue Dome wrote: | | Blue Dome wrote: | | Quote: | | Salt water is often a by-product of natural gas extraction, and often the simplest thing to do is simply pump it back into the ground, as the water itself is often toxic. |
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| moonspots wrote: | | You would have them do what with it, exactly? |
Not to have to deal with such poison in the first place, because our government will have had the moral courage and common sense to begin serious large-scale efforts to wean us off a fossil fuel economy, by creating a cultural, technical, and corporate environment where that would be accomplished.
Unfortunately for now, the fact that the fossil fuel industry owns our government makes that unlikely.
| moonspots wrote: | | And, unless you do not use gasoline/diesel, plastic, vaseline or computers among many other items that are manufactured by the use of oil... I think that your dog in this fight already has a red tag in his ear. |
Not going to list my personal effort to reduce my fossil fuel consumption, but rest assured it's more than most in our society.
In any case, the old and stale argument of you-use-oil-so-you're-guilty doesn't wash. Our government, owned by the fossil fuel industry, makes it very difficult to thrive in our society without consuming fossil fuel and fossil fuel products.
Reducing personal consumption is not enough -- our government must encourage cultural change and mandate technical and corporate change for real benefits to be realized. |
I see... well, I was trying to relate to REAL reality, not imaginary reality.
"Out, OUT you demons of Stupidity"! - St Dogbert, patron Saint of Technology
"Out, OUT you demons of Stupidity"! - St Dogbert, patron Saint of Technology
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Blue Dome
Now with Retsyn
Joined: 12 Aug 2004
Posts: 3144 | TRs | Pics
Location: Cleaning up the dogma. |
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Blue Dome
Now with Retsyn
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Fri Mar 04, 2011 11:09 pm |
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| moonspots wrote: | | I was trying to relate to REAL reality, not imaginary reality. |
We'd still be using stone tipped spears if we hadn't "imagined" a better way.
“I never give them hell. I just tell the truth and they think it's hell.”
— Harry S. Truman
“I never give them hell. I just tell the truth and they think it's hell.”
— Harry S. Truman
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Dayhike Mike
Bad MFKer
Joined: 02 Mar 2003
Posts: 10958 | TRs | Pics
Location: Going to Tukwila |
| BigSteve wrote: | | Relax. The free market will work out all the problems |
Reminds me of "Lie back. close your eyes, and think of England..."
"There is only one basic human right, the right to do as you damn well please. And with it comes the only basic human duty, the duty to take the consequences." -P.J. O'Rourke
"Ignorance is natural. Stupidity takes commitment." -Solomon Short
"There is only one basic human right, the right to do as you damn well please. And with it comes the only basic human duty, the duty to take the consequences." -P.J. O'Rourke
"Ignorance is natural. Stupidity takes commitment." -Solomon Short
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Z
Erratic
Joined: 28 Jan 2008
Posts: 797 | TRs | Pics
Location: Greater Orondo area |
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Z
Erratic
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Sat Mar 12, 2011 5:27 pm |
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| MtnGoat wrote: | | Frakkin' awesome.... |
I've heard that they've recently been using that process quite extensively in northern Japan. 
"Einstein stating that nothing can travel faster than the speed of light, is as a blind man stating that nothing can travel faster than the speed of sound" 1979
They don't make years like they used to.
"Einstein stating that nothing can travel faster than the speed of light, is as a blind man stating that nothing can travel faster than the speed of sound" 1979
They don't make years like they used to.
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MtnGoat
Member
Joined: 17 Dec 2001
Posts: 11992 | TRs | Pics
Location: Lyle, WA |
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MtnGoat
Member
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Sun Mar 13, 2011 1:05 pm |
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| BigSteve wrote: | | Relax. The free market will work out all the problems |
Pretty much. The key is consistent application of the defense of rights.
Diplomacy is the art of saying 'Nice doggie' until you can find a rock. - Will Rogers
Diplomacy is the art of saying 'Nice doggie' until you can find a rock. - Will Rogers
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Allison
Feckless Swooner
Joined: 17 Dec 2001
Posts: 12287 | TRs | Pics
Location: putting on my Nikes before the comet comes |
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Allison
Feckless Swooner
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Mon Mar 14, 2011 1:41 am |
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If you like to fish, or care about the fisheries, read this excellent piece:
By Ted Williams
www.allisonoutside.com
follow me on Twitter! @AllisonLWoods
www.allisonoutside.com
follow me on Twitter! @AllisonLWoods
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MtnGoat
Member
Joined: 17 Dec 2001
Posts: 11992 | TRs | Pics
Location: Lyle, WA |
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MtnGoat
Member
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Mon Mar 14, 2011 1:51 pm |
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Great article, it exposes some very real abuses and concerns.
Diplomacy is the art of saying 'Nice doggie' until you can find a rock. - Will Rogers
Diplomacy is the art of saying 'Nice doggie' until you can find a rock. - Will Rogers
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