[silence]

check it out .. maybe we can make an impact by flooding jewel with letters? ya think? http://www.turns-all-year.com/skiing_snowboarding/trip_reports/index.php?topic=20872.0

[Layback]

I avoid REI whenever I can and support local businesses like Pro Mountain Sports, Marmot and Feathered Friends. I can't believe they treated Monika like that. This is just another reason to avoid them. Clearly it's about profit margin and not ethics. ETA: I don't know what I'm going to do if I need a Life is Good T-Shirt in a jiffy. I guess I'll have to go to the Gap or something now.

[Slugman]

This sad story doesn't belong in Trail Talk. Sorry. People like to think things are simple. Often they are not. Typically manufacturers are liable for manufacturing defects. Does REI become the manufacturer because they put their name on the bike? I don't know. Can REI just pay a claim if they feel they don't owe it, out of sympathy for the accident victim? No, they cannot, not without risking another lawsuit from whoever that money would eventually come from, stockholders in a regular corporation, but I'm not sure about REI because of the whole "co-op, not a co-op" thing. In any case it is a very sad story. I think it's too sad, and too serious, and too much of a technical legal issue, for me to be comfortable with the language and tone of the linked thread. That person is angry, and angry people rarely make perfect sense. I have a lot of sympathy for them, but I'm not going to base my opinion on their opinion. And many others in the thread admit they don't know the details. Neither do I.

[silence]

i put it in trail talk cause i wanted more people to read it .. i don't think ryan is writing out of anger so much as frustration and dismay .. he's an intelligent articulate man.. and not that kind of person .. in any case i have to agree with him .. rei has gotten way too big for their britches ..that's not the co-op i joined back in the 70s

[Cale Hoopes]

On a lighter note, are you saying that the Angry Hiker doesn't make perfect sense?

[Slugman]

I didn't say he was wrong, just that the "F*ck REI" made me uncomfortable. If he is right on this issue, then it's good that it made me uncomfortable. He is trying to rouse people to action, and you don't accomplish that by being oh-so-reasonable in your tone. I'm just not 100% sure he's right, so I will wait until I am before I join the chorus against REI.

[Layback]

Moving on to a discussion to further the cause... I sent an email. It only took 30 seconds. Linky

[DIYSteve]

[Slugman]

Thanks, Steve. Knowledge is always better than rants about t-shirts. Apparently Layback thinks making "complaints" about t-shirts is "furthering the cause"... I will send my email. REI should be telling their insurance carrier to do the right thing or REI should find another carrier.

[Quark]

I bet another carrier would do the same thing, Slug. $ is a big portion of who writes the policies each year. Each premium is likely in the millions. They'd be especially higher, once they see that their insured (REI) is likely to try to force them to pay out for product liability issues because they're "nice" and "want to do the right thing." And since they're such a nice insured, their 2nd and 3rd layers will be higher premiums as well.

[Tom]

I'm not sure who to blame. REI, lawyers, insurance companies, etc. Don't know enough about the case but sounds like a freak accident, REI got sued (bike was REI branded and REI had deeper pockets - edit: seems WA law says REI is liable if they branded the product and responsible to collect from the manufacturer), REI lost, and chose to appeal. It is tragic that she passed away (from an unrelated incident) and while her loved ones may be grieving from that, I don't think it should really bear on the case.

[Layback]

[Mikey]

This might be off topic but remember, some REI employees and all the REI executives are eligible for pay bonuses. In my opinion, ever since the REI pay bonus plan was initiated, REI has never been as kind, friendly, knowledgeable, and helpful as the "old REI". Now the management has a major incentive to make a profit as their bonus is related to the REI profit. REI Executive Compensation Elements and Target Compensation Levels REI compensates its executive officers by providing 4 key elements of pay. These are: (1) base pay, (2) an annual bonus linked to individual performance and the company's annual results, (3) a long-term incentive opportunity linked to performance on two key measurements of success, return on capital and revenue growth, over multi-year periods, and (4) a highly competitive retirement plan. REl's retirement plan applies to all employees and has two components, a 5% guaranteed contribution and up to an additional 10% in profit sharing based on co-op performance. Executive perquisites are limited to two allowances, one for a car and one for a communication device.

[silence]

nobody is saying it should .. maybe someone is? i didn't read everyone's comments .. her death shouldn't have any bearing on this .. it's about responsibility and liability .. and just doing the right thing .. it would be refreshing to see rei step up to the plate and take some initiative on the part of its members and the good folks out there who want to believe

[Slugman]

Here's what I sent: Please do the right thing in the Monika case. Tell your insurance carrier to do the right thing. This whole case disturbs me. I am a long-time customer and a big fan of REI in general. Don't do anything, please, that will make me become disillusioned with your company, or should I say "more disillusioned". Even though I would still like your gear, my conscience would forbid me to do further business with you.