Forum Index > Public Lands Stewardship > Twisp residents indicted on wolf killing charges
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BeyondLost
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PostWed Jul 25, 2012 8:02 am 
I grew up rural but not in the Methow. I fully understand that in areas like the Methow the fact that I have lived here and owned property for 13 years still leaves me as a newcomer and you are not considered to be a "local" unless you come from a 3rd or 4th generation family. That said the valley is changing and ranchers are now a minority, although a very vocal minority, about the wolf issue. Every decade there are fewer ranchers and fewer cattle or sheep raising operations. Ranches/farms continue to be broken up and developed. Poll the remaining ranchers and I'm sure 90% would kill the wolves. Poll all property owners in the valley and I'd suspect as many as 75% have no problem with wolves living here. Same thing applies to the cougar.

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B+L
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PostWed Jul 25, 2012 8:20 am 
RickS wrote:
When he says locals, he means the hunters and ranchers. Hunters and ranchers tend to be the ones that hate wolves or any other natural predator that eats other animals for their survival.
I'm going by what he actually said, not making assumptions about what he meant. He said "the locals". Even if he meant just the hunters and ranchers, it is still an overgeneralization. He also paraphrased the nonsense about wolf kills all over the valley. That's plenty of that type of BS over on huntfishnw.com.

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RickS
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PostWed Jul 25, 2012 3:33 pm 
I don't think it's a secret. Anyone who has been involved in this wolf issue knows that the people who tend to dislike wolves or any other natural predator are usually hunters or ranchers or both. up.gif up.gif up.gif This doesn't mean that every single hunter or rancher hates wolves. The hunters/ranchers are indeed a minority, but a vocal one at that.

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RickS
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PostWed Jul 25, 2012 3:37 pm 
You're probably right. Not everyone in the methow valley is a hunter or rancher. A lot of ranchers/hunters are the ones who hate wolves. The extreme hate that a lot of hunters/ranchers seem to have for wolves is the reason why there are so many in WA trying to protect and fight for them.
BeyondLost wrote:
I grew up rural but not in the Methow. I fully understand that in areas like the Methow the fact that I have lived here and owned property for 13 years still leaves me as a newcomer and you are not considered to be a "local" unless you come from a 3rd or 4th generation family. That said the valley is changing and ranchers are now a minority, although a very vocal minority, about the wolf issue. Every decade there are fewer ranchers and fewer cattle or sheep raising operations. Ranches/farms continue to be broken up and developed. Poll the remaining ranchers and I'm sure 90% would kill the wolves. Poll all property owners in the valley and I'd suspect as many as 75% have no problem with wolves living here. Same thing applies to the cougar.

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Snowbrushy
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PostThu Jul 26, 2012 11:26 am 
IMO we (ranchers, sheepherders, hunters, homeowners and hikers) should all be proud of our state's wildlife. http://static.flickr.com/8018/7651588808_5b22248a62_m.jpg

Oh Pilot of the storm who leaves no trace Like thoughts inside a dream Heed the path that led me to that place Yellow desert stream.
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Schenk
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PostFri Aug 03, 2012 1:55 pm 
Do any overt supporters of wolves have any idea of what you really want for the Wolves?
  • Can someone explain to me just how many wolves will be enough? or too many? (Can there be too many for some?)
  • What density are you suggesting? One wolf per square mile, 2, 3 , 12, 50?
  • What are the limits of their range you would set for allowing them to establish a pack within?
  • How close to residential dwellings would they be allowed to actively hunt?
  • How close to livestock can they live and hunt.
    • What provisions would YOU allow for livestock kill compensation?
    • How would YOU handle problem animals?
For now, the powers that be have set those limits for wolves and once they are reached...control is in order and, in fact, provisions for legal control have been put in place.

Nature exists with a stark indifference to humans' situation.
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Schenk
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PostFri Aug 03, 2012 2:12 pm 
RickS wrote:
I don't think it's a secret. Anyone who has been involved in this wolf issue knows that the people who tend to dislike wolves or any other natural predator are usually hunters or ranchers or both. up.gif up.gif up.gif This doesn't mean that every single hunter or rancher hates wolves. The hunters/ranchers are indeed a minority, but a vocal one at that.
So...you have made the astounding observation that the people who suffer the affects of wolf predation are most likely to dislike them. Then let us point out that it is also true that people who don't really have to live with the wolves tend to be less critical of the situation. What is your point???? If you can't see it from your yard it is OK??? down.gif down.gif down.gif That's not how it works.

Nature exists with a stark indifference to humans' situation.
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RickS
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PostFri Aug 03, 2012 6:35 pm 
I don't know how many wolves will be enough. Personally, I'd love to see a couple hundred. They will keep the elk and deer herds in check. up.gif up.gif up.gif
Schenk wrote:
Do any overt supporters of wolves have any idea of what you really want for the Wolves?
  • Can someone explain to me just how many wolves will be enough? or too many? (Can there be too many for some?)
  • What density are you suggesting? One wolf per square mile, 2, 3 , 12, 50?
  • What are the limits of their range you would set for allowing them to establish a pack within?
  • How close to residential dwellings would they be allowed to actively hunt?
  • How close to livestock can they live and hunt.
    • What provisions would YOU allow for livestock kill compensation?
    • How would YOU handle problem animals?
For now, the powers that be have set those limits for wolves and once they are reached...control is in order and, in fact, provisions for legal control have been put in place.

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RickS
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PostFri Aug 03, 2012 6:37 pm 
I don't think it's news to anyone that the groups of people who tend to be rabid wolf haters are hunters and ranchers. I mean wolves kill some livestock and cattle, but weather and disease kill far more. Hunters are supposed to be conservationists or so they claim, yet they hate predators. I have no sympathy for those that whine about wolves killing elk and deer, their natural prey. up.gif up.gif up.gif There are infact people who live with wolves in Montana, Idaho, Oregon, Washington, etc and have no problem with them.
Schenk wrote:
RickS wrote:
I don't think it's a secret. Anyone who has been involved in this wolf issue knows that the people who tend to dislike wolves or any other natural predator are usually hunters or ranchers or both. up.gif up.gif up.gif This doesn't mean that every single hunter or rancher hates wolves. The hunters/ranchers are indeed a minority, but a vocal one at that.
So...you have made the astounding observation that the people who suffer the affects of wolf predation are most likely to dislike them. Then let us point out that it is also true that people who don't really have to live with the wolves tend to be less critical of the situation. What is your point???? If you can't see it from your yard it is OK??? down.gif down.gif down.gif That's not how it works.

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Schenk
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PostTue Aug 07, 2012 12:31 pm 
You sir are a bigot. I "have no sympathy" for bigots that are prejudiced against an entire group of people, as if they all have the same characteristics. Especially when you hide behind those statements as if they were a cause to not consider any discussion or compromise regarding an issue. You can continue to slander hunters and ranchers and also continue to expect others to make sacrifice for your pet cause while you have offered nothing towards a solution, much less even considered sacrifice on your end. Your "rabid hatred" for hunters and ranchers is facilitated by this thread and you have offered nothing but over the top, slanderous, accusations and statements which serve no constructive purpose. See ya...

Nature exists with a stark indifference to humans' situation.
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RickS
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PostTue Aug 07, 2012 2:26 pm 
The wolf isn't my pet. My dislike for hunters who are anti-predator extremists is justified. up.gif up.gif up.gif
Schenk wrote:
You sir are a bigot. I "have no sympathy" for bigots that are prejudiced against an entire group of people, as if they all have the same characteristics. Especially when you hide behind those statements as if they were a cause to not consider any discussion or compromise regarding an issue. You can continue to slander hunters and ranchers and also continue to expect others to make sacrifice for your pet cause while you have offered nothing towards a solution, much less even considered sacrifice on your end. Your "rabid hatred" for hunters and ranchers is facilitated by this thread and you have offered nothing but over the top, slanderous, accusations and statements which serve no constructive purpose. See ya...

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Sky Hiker
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PostWed Aug 08, 2012 4:55 am 
Justified how so?

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cartman
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PostThu Aug 09, 2012 4:43 pm 
Sky Hiker wrote:
People get tired of mismanagement of wildlife in the area and to watch their local deer population eaten alive in front of them leaves a bad taste.
Are you serious? You're actually worried that wolves are doing what they're supposed to be doing--hunting a prey species that has no shortage of numbers? Have you been griping all along about deer kills by cougars and bears too, or are wolves just a convenient target for the "locals" to bitch about? Predators are "managed" by the local prey population. They don't need to be regulated by people. The sensible thing would be to ban hunting of all predator species, but unfortunately that won't ever happen.
Sky Hiker wrote:
To have their livestock and pets killed just doesn't set well.
Pets are much more likely to be victims of coyotes than wolves. Not to mention cars. For livestock, the government should have a generous and swift compensation policy in place for affected ranchers. If there is a problem animal/pack, they should be relocated. NOT SHOT. This continuous carping about predator species which used to be ubiquitous throughout the land until we arrived by the selfish and ignorant is absurd. Quit crying and move on.

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RickS
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PostThu Aug 09, 2012 5:49 pm 
http://hunting-washington.com/smf/index.php?topic=102770.0 These people are supposed to love wildlife or maybe they just love killing it? I will go with the latter.

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RickS
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PostThu Aug 09, 2012 5:54 pm 
Elk are not endangered. Deer are not endangered. Wolves in WA are indeed endangered based on their numbers alone. Personally, I have no problem with wolves eating as much as their natural prey as they want. It's their prey. Hunters are always going to whine about something. If they had their way, they would turn WA into an elk and deer farm and kill off all of the predators. This is 2012. WA has bears, cougars, wolves, etc and hunters will have to sacrifice their hunting opportunities simply because bears, wolves, cougars, etc need to eat elk and deer for their survival. up.gif up.gif up.gif

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