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Chief Joseph Member
Joined: 10 Nov 2007 Posts: 7709 | TRs | Pics Location: Verlot-Priest Lake |
Seems to be a very tough job. In my non professional <opinion> it seems that in the cascades they sometimes under-estimate the power of mother nature, in many cases a wild stream or river. Last week during the heavy rains a FB poster observed a large mount of logs floating past her house next to the Stillaguamish river. They were wondering if they might have come from the recent construction of a levee and salmon rearing ponds up at Gold Basin. It looks like on the east side of the campground, just across the river about a 70' section of trees lining the levee were washed away.
Some are about a mile downstream washed up against the north bank. When I went up there last week during the height of the storm, there were 4' waves and the river was near the top of the levee. I suppose it was to be expected that some would dislodge, and the section in question was right where the river makes a bend to the south. On the plus side, there is a very nice sandy beach seen on the mid-right side of my first photo.
Go placidly amid the noise and waste, and remember what comfort there may be in owning a piece thereof.
Go placidly amid the noise and waste, and remember what comfort there may be in owning a piece thereof.
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Chief Joseph Member
Joined: 10 Nov 2007 Posts: 7709 | TRs | Pics Location: Verlot-Priest Lake |
Go placidly amid the noise and waste, and remember what comfort there may be in owning a piece thereof.
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treeswarper Alleged Sockpuppet!
Joined: 25 Dec 2006 Posts: 11279 | TRs | Pics Location: Don't move here |
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treeswarper
Alleged Sockpuppet!
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Fri Nov 05, 2021 7:52 am
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The log structures that were placed along the Cispus River in the 1990s have been working as they should. The purpose was to save the 23 road. The river has not had the same major flooding as in 1996? again, so we don't know if they will hold through that much water. Similar structures have been placed along highway 12 just east of Randle to try to save the highway.
Other small successes have been replacing culverts with wet crossings--concrete contoured a bit to let water go over, and trash catchers. That's so far. I would expect those to fail someday.
What's especially fun about sock puppets is that you can make each one unique and individual, so that they each have special characters. And they don't have to be human––animals and aliens are great possibilities
What's especially fun about sock puppets is that you can make each one unique and individual, so that they each have special characters. And they don't have to be human––animals and aliens are great possibilities
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Pyrites Member
Joined: 16 Sep 2014 Posts: 1884 | TRs | Pics Location: South Sound |
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Pyrites
Member
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Fri Nov 05, 2021 8:28 am
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https://www.fs.fed.us/pnw/pubs/229intro.pdf
https://file.dnr.wa.gov/publications/em_fp_biomass_forest_to_sea_story_fallen_trees.pdf
See p 48.
Authors were a virtual who’s who fisheries and forest of the time, maybe leaving out Kate Sullivan.
This and the follow on book by Maser and Sedell of half a dozen years later were kind of a shock to me. The idea that not just rivers like the Stilly, and the Green, but the Willamette, Skagit, and Snohomish had log jams that in some cases extended for miles - big, powerful rivers - truly monstrous beasts a few days a decade - it’s just so different. They talk large woody debris with 18” diameter now. It’s hard to remember and envision out side of the Park many 4 and 6’ diameter logs that must have been the founding logs of those jams. You just can’t pull out 300 or 500 year old trees with their root wads attached to build fish habitat.
Some books disturb the senses, forever. You drive over the bridges and see imposed on your sight the alternatives past.
Keep Calm and Carry On?
Heck No.
Stay Excited and Get Outside!
Keep Calm and Carry On?
Heck No.
Stay Excited and Get Outside!
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Kim Brown Member
Joined: 13 Jul 2009 Posts: 6899 | TRs | Pics
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These logs don't look secured as an Engineered Log Jam would be, but maybe they are (or were) and the photo doesn't show it. Along the banks of the White River at Federation State Forest you can see more-engineered ELJ's, with the anchor logs pounded into the banks and logs lashed together. I don't know why these weren't built the same as the others; the Stilly is not Wild & Scenic, but perhaps it's another designation that prohibits it.
"..living on the east side of the Sierra world be ideal - except for harsher winters and the chance of apocalyptic fires burning the whole area."
Bosterson, NWHiker's marketing expert
"..living on the east side of the Sierra world be ideal - except for harsher winters and the chance of apocalyptic fires burning the whole area."
Bosterson, NWHiker's marketing expert
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treeswarper Alleged Sockpuppet!
Joined: 25 Dec 2006 Posts: 11279 | TRs | Pics Location: Don't move here |
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treeswarper
Alleged Sockpuppet!
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Fri Nov 05, 2021 9:25 am
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Columbia Helicopters had a contract in the Oregon Coast Range and was ferrying large diameter logs sans rootwads to place in streams.
I do know that in the same area, it had to be explained to a fisheries person that it isn't exactly possible to push over large diameter trees in a safe manner using for instance, a large excavator. It might be possible to push one over in the right circumstances, but not exactly safe due to limbs, tops breaking, control, etc. of the tree. Then it takes pretty big equipment to load it onto a truck.
(time to think in a scandihoovian type accent now)
Back in da not too old days, it took a logger about an hour to get a large log onto a truck using his second growth sized equipment. The truck had two small bunk logs, and then the big punkin log was wrassled onto the trailer using chokers, a skidder and the Barko loader. The truck was getting jostled pretty good during this feat. There was a lot of yelling and moving of the skidder into different positions. The log went to the old Packwood mill, which is no longer a mill.
I do have a black and white photo of this, but not handy right now.
What's especially fun about sock puppets is that you can make each one unique and individual, so that they each have special characters. And they don't have to be human––animals and aliens are great possibilities
What's especially fun about sock puppets is that you can make each one unique and individual, so that they each have special characters. And they don't have to be human––animals and aliens are great possibilities
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George Winters Member
Joined: 02 Oct 2009 Posts: 217 | TRs | Pics Location: Darrington |
This will be an interesting experiment to watch. Google Earth gives an opportunity to look at about 3 decades of images, showing a very short snapshot of that active geological system across the river from the Gold Basin campground. The images show that in about 1990 the loop of the river was several hundred feet farther NE. In a decade or so the mountain slope of clay/sediment advanced, covering the 1990 river bed an average of over 30 feet deep, moving the river SE.
Looking at the photo in the Herald, it appears the canal has been excavated to move the river a similar further distance SE, which, at least for now, gets the river away from the toe of that moving mass of clay/sediment.
I see two questions related to two big natural local forces. First, in the short term, will the river dynamics of flooding and sediment and upstream debris let the river stay in the new canal? Second, in the long term, will the huge mass of clay/sediment keep moving SE? As for the logs visible in the Herald photo, my guess is that their size and mass is probably irrelevant in relation to the two major local dynamic forces.
When you are "miles from nowhere" you must have finally arrived at somewhere.
When you are "miles from nowhere" you must have finally arrived at somewhere.
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treeswarper Alleged Sockpuppet!
Joined: 25 Dec 2006 Posts: 11279 | TRs | Pics Location: Don't move here |
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treeswarper
Alleged Sockpuppet!
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Fri Nov 05, 2021 5:16 pm
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What's especially fun about sock puppets is that you can make each one unique and individual, so that they each have special characters. And they don't have to be human––animals and aliens are great possibilities
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Chief Joseph Member
Joined: 10 Nov 2007 Posts: 7709 | TRs | Pics Location: Verlot-Priest Lake |
treeswarper wrote: | Other small successes have been replacing culverts with wet crossings--concrete contoured a bit to let water go over, and trash catchers. That's so far. I would expect those to fail someday. |
There is one of those on Deer Creek road on the way to the Helena mine TH, it has help up well so far, it's been there as long as I remember. They did a great job fixing the other big washout that had that road closed for several year, I was really surprised that they fixed it.
Then there is the Ice Caves bridge, the footings on the south side washed out a couple of years ago and the bridge was only a few year old. I noticed when they placed that footing that they filled it some rather small, maybe golf ball or less sized rocks, not surprised that they washed away during extreme conditions. It seems that they need to over-build things more, but then Mother Nature in this area is brutal and unpredictable.
Go placidly amid the noise and waste, and remember what comfort there may be in owning a piece thereof.
Go placidly amid the noise and waste, and remember what comfort there may be in owning a piece thereof.
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RumiDude Marmota olympus
Joined: 26 Jul 2009 Posts: 3590 | TRs | Pics Location: Port Angeles |
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RumiDude
Marmota olympus
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Sat Nov 06, 2021 8:56 pm
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Chief Joseph wrote: | Then there is the Ice Caves bridge, the footings on the south side washed out a couple of years ago and the bridge was only a few year old. I noticed when they placed that footing that they filled it some rather small, maybe golf ball or less sized rocks, not surprised that they washed away during extreme conditions. It seems that they need to over-build things more, but then Mother Nature in this area is brutal and unpredictable. |
Turns out the spanning piers of the US 101 bridge across the Elwha River were laid on gravel and not bedrock. Oops!
Rumi
"This is my Indian summer ... I'm far more dangerous now, because I don't care at all."
Chief Joseph
"This is my Indian summer ... I'm far more dangerous now, because I don't care at all."
Chief Joseph
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