Forum Index > Trail Talk > Private drive but no "No Trespassing" sign.
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aywolfpac
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PostThu Jul 14, 2011 10:54 pm 
Malachai Constant wrote:
You are not privileged to shot trespassers inmost cases but if they enter a dwelling house you may well be allowed to do so. This is not and is not intended to be legal advice.
There was just a decision against a fellow named Brady (can't remember the first name) who hid out in his garage waiting for burglers to arrive and then shot and killed one of them before they entered the garage. The cops confirmed that they were planning on robbing him but he was found guilty of manslaughter anyway because the jury decided a rational human being would've called the police instead of taking matters into their own hands. I'm not sure how I feel about it but waiting in the garage sure seems like pre-meditation to me and he shot the guy before they actually entered his garage. I was always under the impression that you could legally shoot someone on your property if you were protecting yourself, but not just because someone is on your property.

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Gamuru
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PostFri Jul 15, 2011 6:21 am 
Yep, that would have been murder in my book, too. In Washington state, your life has to be in jeopardy for it to be self defense. The decision whether or not you kill them has to be made by them, i.e. yours is a reaction to a situation they put you in, not a premeditated or voluntary action on your part. The threat to life and limb has to be real and articulable, too.

Don "The definition of a mine is a hole in the ground that belongs to a liar." ~Mark Twain
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aywolfpac
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PostFri Jul 15, 2011 8:13 am 
Gamuru wrote:
Yep, that would have been murder in my book, too. In Washington state, your life has to be in jeopardy for it to be self defense. The decision whether or not you kill them has to be made by them, i.e. yours is a reaction to a situation they put you in, not a premeditated or voluntary action on your part. The threat to life and limb has to be real and articulable, too.
I should've pointed out that this Brady guy had been robbed a couple times before and the cops couldn't catch the thieves. He saw the door into his garage was propped open during the day so knew they were coming again and decided to hide out. I don't know how much of a difference, if any, that makes but it wasn't a one time thing.

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treeswarper
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PostFri Jul 15, 2011 8:25 am 
We can shoot intruders in Lewis County. It depends where you live. I think the guy got off that killed a tweaker who pulled a knife or something on him. There have been instances in the past. Lewis County is a good place. up.gif

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Gamuru
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PostFri Jul 15, 2011 9:40 am 
aywolfpac wrote:
He saw the door into his garage was propped open during the day so knew they were coming again and decided to hide out.
At which point his actions became premeditated. Sucks, but that's the way the law works.

Don "The definition of a mine is a hole in the ground that belongs to a liar." ~Mark Twain
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Dayhike Mike
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PostFri Jul 15, 2011 10:00 am 
Gamuru wrote:
aywolfpac wrote:
He saw the door into his garage was propped open during the day so knew they were coming again and decided to hide out.
At which point his actions became premeditated. Sucks, but that's the way the law works.
"So I was sitting there in my garage, cleaning my guns, completely full of love and one with the universe, and wondering what I was going to do that day. When suddenly, out of nowhere these two gentlemen came through the door. I was shocked! Surprised! Startled, I tells ya. And then I remembered all the past burglaries we'd had, and wondered if these might be the folk who'd done it, and if they were armed and might be fixin' to do me harm. I couldn't quite see what was in their hands, but the gleam in their eyes, it looked mighty fierce, like that look you get from a cornered badger or wolverine. Now as luck would have it, I had *JUST* finished reassembling my rifle and happened to have that in my hands. And in fact, the barrel of the rifle was resting on the table where I'd been cleaning the gun, and in fact, it happened to be pointing at the door where these two folk had just come through. And in fact, my finger just happened to be right near the trigger, seeing as I had just been polishing the metal in that area of the gun. The safety must have been off because I was surprised, shocked, I tells ya, when in my startlement and fear my finger bumped the trigger and it fired, immediately killing one of the aggressive looking possible thieves that had just entered my room with a menacing look upon their visage. The gun must have recoiled from the shot because it started to fall off the table. I went to steady it and must have, completely by accident, hit that trigger again. And the second menacing looking fella dropped to his knees as well. It was the darndest thing." *shrug*

"There is only one basic human right, the right to do as you damn well please. And with it comes the only basic human duty, the duty to take the consequences." -P.J. O'Rourke "Ignorance is natural. Stupidity takes commitment." -Solomon Short
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Gamuru
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PostFri Jul 15, 2011 10:20 am 
ykm.gif

Don "The definition of a mine is a hole in the ground that belongs to a liar." ~Mark Twain
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Voxxjin
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PostWed Oct 09, 2013 3:30 pm 
resurrecting an old post because i have a similar question. There is a parcel of land not far from me (200 acres or so) that is unimproved and essentially wild. There appears to be a chainlink fence around parts of it. Some sections are either non existant or have fallen over. There is an old dirt road that leads to a gate but the gate has been taken off its hinges. By the way the road was last used years ago judging by the height of the trees growing in the middle of it. Now on parts of the fence that are standing one might find a sign that says 'Restricted Access Authorized Persons Only'. Of course you will only see one of the signs if you come across a standing peice of fence. If one trekked in there, would it be trespassing? A little research of the area led me to discover that the land is owned by a company which leases it to a mining company. No mining in this area as an enviromental study hasn't been completed for this section. I ask because sometimes I like to follow animal trails that cross a trail I am on just to see where it leads. I have ended up on two different golf courses doing this (no fences on that side of the course) and an old railroad building. btw, if it matters I am not taking or destroying anything just exploring the area.

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Mtn Dog
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PostWed Oct 09, 2013 6:19 pm 
If you know who owns the land, why not contact them directly and ask for permission? That seems like the easiest way to handle it.

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Chico
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PostThu Oct 10, 2013 6:56 am 
Gestalt wrote:
I came upon a situation yesterday with a road what was gated and signed "Private Drive"
Cowiche Canyon Road by any chance? I'd bet this one will end up in court.

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wolffie
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PostThu Oct 10, 2013 10:43 am 
Look on the other side of the sign. As Woody said, that's the side that's made for you and me. It ain't my land, and it ain't your land.

Some people have better things to do with their lives than walking the dog. Some don't.
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Daryl
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PostFri Oct 11, 2013 10:07 am 
I think the rule is pretty much, if you "knowingly" enter land you are not supposed to be in, you are trespassing. Seems like you know... Will anyone ever call the police on you? Will they ever get there while you are still there? Will the cop probably just warn you if you played dumb if they were to catch you? Your call.

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ArcDome
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PostFri Oct 11, 2013 12:44 pm 
Here's a FAQ from WDFW regarding trespassing: WDFW FAQ Here's an interesting newer law regarding new penalties for hunters who trespass: NW Sportsmans Article

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509
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PostFri Oct 11, 2013 5:56 pm 
Well, I have run across several parcels of public land posted as private. Mostly DNR some BLM, rarely Forest Service. Once I invited the supposed landowner to go ahead and call the Sheriff. We were going to hunt "our public lands" and would return to the rig when we saw the deputy. At this point, the guy said...."well, it would be a courtesy if you asked me first since I have a grazing lease on the parcel". It is amazing the stuff these guys pull. I finally got DNR to remove a sign on DNR land within a half block of my house. It only took two years after both DNR and Game Department blew off my complaint. A call to my local representative got the sign removed in a month. Oh, the penalty for posting public land as private is the same as the trespassing laws according to the local legislator. I did send a note to Rich Landers to write an article on public lands being posted as private. Montana has a reporting system for folks to send reports to the Federal and local agencies if people see public lands being posted as private. Washington state needs to do something similar.

Retired Forester....rambling round www.usbackroads.blogspot.com
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vibramhead
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PostSun Oct 13, 2013 9:03 am 
509 wrote:
Well, I have run across several parcels of public land posted as private. Mostly DNR some BLM, rarely Forest Service. Once I invited the supposed landowner to go ahead and call the Sheriff. We were going to hunt "our public lands" and would return to the rig when we saw the deputy. At this point, the guy said...."well, it would be a courtesy if you asked me first since I have a grazing lease on the parcel". It is amazing the stuff these guys pull. I finally got DNR to remove a sign on DNR land within a half block of my house. It only took two years after both DNR and Game Department blew off my complaint. A call to my local representative got the sign removed in a month. Oh, the penalty for posting public land as private is the same as the trespassing laws according to the local legislator. I did send a note to Rich Landers to write an article on public lands being posted as private. Montana has a reporting system for folks to send reports to the Federal and local agencies if people see public lands being posted as private. Washington state needs to do something similar.
You're a hero for pursuing this. There are way too many people out there who've come to believe that they "own" big chunks of public land.

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