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Forum Index -> Stewardship -> Geothermal Energy in WA (Split from Garland HS Thread)
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ladydi
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Post Wed Sep 07, 2011 9:10 pm   
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I was talking to my dad this evening and he said PUD is looking around for geo thermal energy.  He said it is more cost effective than maintaining the dams.   Makes sense and we are sitting on an active volcanic mountain range.  Seems like it shouldn't be too hard to find geothermal energy. 

Of course, they could be trying to steal that awesome mineral water...

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Allison
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Post Wed Sep 07, 2011 10:42 pm   
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Geothermal in WA? There might be a little, but I wouldn't get all excited about it being much of anything.

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rap
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Post Sat Sep 17, 2011 8:43 am   
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The Snohomish County PUD is hopeing to build a Geothermal plant at the Garland site with many feeder-wells around the area piping steam and hot water into the plant.  The larger desceration will occur when the county tries to connect the plant with the grid, just off hwy 2.  The transmission lines cannot go over the Wild Sky Wilderness.  That leaves only two other routs--over Jack's Pass and the Beckler River road, or the Index Galena road.  The county PUD is" mum" on the routes.  However, the logical route will be the Index Galena rouet along the North Fork of the Sky. river.  Both routes are narrow and will require large swaths of clear cutting, resulting with terrible environmental destruction, in my oppinion.   The Index Galena route is several times shorter in distance.  The PUD says it is spending millions on the drilling and site preporation (not including the plant which would cost $100 million), but they have not thought about the transmission lines.  They say that will be considered after the well comes in, IF it comes in.  I don't think it is possible to get the power out without desicrating the entive area, whichever way they go.  Therefore, I think they are just playing around and spending some Federal $.  However, if you go by what they say, they will build the largest geothermal plant possible at the site.  The 5,ooo to 6,000 deep well they are drilling now will determine the future of the entire area.  I have been unable to get anyone's attention on this because all the groups that would normally oppose a thing like this are in favor of green energy.  It may be green, but it looks no different from an oil well.

For further information, refer to this link:

http://www.skyko.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=general
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Hulksmash
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Post Sat Sep 17, 2011 9:51 am   
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Are you and electrical engineer?

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Schroder
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Post Sat Sep 17, 2011 3:39 pm   
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rap, here's an older thread on this - Geothermal Test Drilling by Snohomish Co PUD. The reasoning behind this is as the linked article says:

Quote:
In 2006, voters approved Initiative 937, which requires the state's major utilities to produce 15 percent of their electricity from renewable resources such as wind and geothermal by 2020. Power from dams doesn't count.

My understanding is that this is the 5th test well PUD is digging and so far they haven't found anything. I suspect Garland's source is too little to do anything with also.
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rap
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Post Sun Sep 18, 2011 7:04 am   
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Yes, I am aware of all of that.  I have been told that the chances of a well comming in is only 20 percent.  However, so far of the five wells drilled by the county, only Garland was selected for another well, this one 5 to 6 K deep.  The county PUD has its mandate and is serious.   They also are leasing a 26 mile tract of land to a private international drilling company, ORMAT.  The tract of land will run from Garland to where the pavement ends by the little bridge on the Beckler river road.  All of these areas are narrow with mountains comming down on both sides to the river.  Hopefully they don't find anything--but IF THEY DO????
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Zipper
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Post Thu Sep 22, 2011 12:47 am   
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Here is some more reliable information:

A recent Washington State voter initiative requires the Snohomish County PUD produce a portion of its power from renewable sources other than hydroelectric.  Several options are being explored, including wind, wave, geothermal, and others.  A number of potential geothermal sources are being considered.  Since Garland Mineral Springs is at the intersection of two fault lines, it offers the potential of a decent pool of hot water. Recent scientific papers indicate that geothermal may become an extremely effective source of clean power for North America.  In fact, it may become the dominant source.



If an adequate geothermal pool is proved-out at Garland, a modest geothermal generation plant can be built on the Garland site and easily screened from view.  Extensive wildlife and environmental studies have been done, and the results are encouraging.  There are several win-win opportunities in the Garland project.



Moderate amounts of power (up to 10 MW per conduit) can be brought out past the Wild Sky Wilderness area by conduit (under the road).
The small power plant will be screened by old growth forest.
No old growth trees will be removed.
Funding will become available to restore the salmon spawning grounds destroyed by river braiding.
Clean, renewable power will be available to power electric cars.
The mineral water may become a viable flow once again.


During the past 50-years, Garland has suffered greatly from river damage.  After the 1,000 year high flood of 1959, the river began an extremely destructive braiding process.  Each time the river moved from one side to another, large quantities of salmon eggs (that have a limited life span) are stranded and lost.  Embankments are have been continuously eroded with old growth timber falling and clogging the river.  Literally many acres of dirt from Garland now silt and pollute the Puget Sound, further disturbing marine wildlife.  As the river has braided and clogged with debris, it has built up its elevation at the wider spots, creating more flooding to the 1,000 year old Garland valley.  During this time, the river has taken about 10-acres of Garland land, the foundations from the old Lodge, the 100 swimming pool, several cabins, and is destroying the springs.



Many see the geothermal power plant as the vehicle to restore the salmon habitat and ultimately save the springs.

Zipper
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Klapton
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Post Thu Sep 22, 2011 9:05 am   
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It will be nice if this ends up bringing about the salmon-friendly taming of the river.  It's a shame, however, that the county bureaucrats never let the property owner do that years ago when he offered.  It would have saved the historic "Cabin 1" and lots of the erosion that followed.
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Sclafaniks
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Post Sat Sep 24, 2011 8:38 am   
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Each memory that I have of Garland is imprinted on my heart and stays with me no matter how far I roam. In one memory, Grandpa and Dad (Cam Sr. & Curtis) were on a "rescue mission" driving a truck full of hay to Danny & Jeri who were wintering on the mountain with their fancy horses. I was 10 yrs old, riding in the back with the hay, and praying the whole time that the chains wouldn't fall off the tires. When we (finally) arrived at Garland, the snow was 3' deep. A recent avalanche had crossed the road and stopped just into the property. The pile of trees was so high...I remember thinking it was a miracle that it hadn't gone clear through the property to the river. Had it traveled in a slightly different trajectory, the springs would be buried...and Cabin 1 and Danny & Jeri would have been gone as well. I have a vague memory of standing next to Jeri, looking up the mountain viewing the enormity of the slide as she recalled that event. The details are fuzzy, but very clear to me, even as a child, was this truth:  God is bigger than the mountain, He hears our cries for help, and He rescues us from danger!

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Ringangleclaw
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Post Mon Sep 26, 2011 7:34 am   
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Allison wrote:
Geothermal in WA? There might be a little, but I wouldn't get all excited about it being much of anything.

Excuse me Dr. Woods, but your PhD isn't in geology or geophysics, is it?  Could not the Cascade subduction zone and resulting Cascade Magmatic Arc result in some areas where economically feasible geothermal waters could be reached?  There does seem to be enough energy to form a series of batholiths and large volcanic flows all the way into the early Tertiary.  And given that we have Quaternary volcanoes up to 14,000' high, it seems like the process is still continuing.  I was wondering if your statement is based on any current research, or is just mindless blabbering based on nothing?
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Sclafaniks
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Post Mon Sep 26, 2011 7:47 am   
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Dear Ringangleclaw,
Thank you for clarifying...I read something recently that sounds just like what you said...only easier to understand. smile.gif  PS  Play nice ;P

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Allison
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Post Mon Sep 26, 2011 8:16 am   
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I was basing my assumption on the lack of hot springs in the area.

Apologies if I offended anyone with my comment.

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Ringangleclaw
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Post Mon Sep 26, 2011 8:18 am   
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Dr. Woods,

Haugerud and Tabor (2009) as well as Tabor and others (1993), show Garland Hot Springs dead on the the western portion of the Darrington-Devils Mountain Fault Zone of Lovseth (1975).  Given that this structure is felt to be deep seated and on a par with the nearby Straight Creek Fault (Tabor 1994), would not conventional wisdom (Grubb, per comm) lead one to believe that this Garland Hot Springs would be an ideal location for exploratory geothermal investigations?
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rap
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Post Sat Oct 01, 2011 7:14 am   
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You stated, "Extensive wildlife and environmental studies have been done".  I would love to you to post the link. I think you are talking "hogwash".
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Mike Collins
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Post Sat Oct 01, 2011 9:25 am   
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I blew the dust off of this study published in 1974 that did not show Garland to be of geothermal potential then. http://www.dnr.wa.gov/publications/ger_ic50_energy_res_wa.pdf#page=13

Page 12 of the study reports the source temperature of the Garland Springs at 21 degrees Celsius.
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