Forum Index > Public Lands Stewardship > Geothermal Energy in WA (Split from Garland HS Thread)
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rap
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PostSun Nov 20, 2011 8:05 pm 
To Cameron Sharp I have avoided bringing you into this conversation until your earlier post, as i believe the PUD is the real villain. However, your statements were shallow rationalizations and misrepresentations of what has and is happening at Garland and may also happen very soon in other places all around it. I countered each of your statements and challenged you to respond. You have chosen to avoid doing so and continue to preach the same nonsense and platitudes. In all due respect you are being disingenuous. You sold out the land for money. I ask you again-- how much do you get a month from the PUD to allow them to desecrate the land you claim to be the good steward of? I grant you, you have every right to profit from your business deal, but don't try to pass this off as not being a lucrative business deal and yourself off as doing a favor to mankind. For your information, geothermal drilling is known for ruining hot springs and geysers--not saving them. They are delicate things and messing with the ground screws them up. They are going to be drilling up there for years. The county says at least three more at Garland and USFS land. Also, this is not about clear-cutting. That is a red herring. It is about your ruining your place and threatening all the other places around it. It is about trying to pass yourself off as a good steward of the land when you are the owner who ruined it.

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MtnGoat
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PostTue Nov 22, 2011 11:28 am 
rap wrote:
Why do they have to come up here and scrounge through our forest for a watt here and there like bums going through a dumpster. There is so little remaining, yet now they have come for that too. .
There is plenty remaining, and the prevention of the usage of abundant resources, on the basis of a flawed claim, is driving the search for a few watts here and there. The scarcity behind this push is artificially induced and the damage you see is the result of these artificial constraints on the use of other resources.

Diplomacy is the art of saying 'Nice doggie' until you can find a rock. - Will Rogers
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rap
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PostWed Nov 23, 2011 4:41 am 
If you have something to say, then say it. Do you mean the people who will not let us develope our abundent oil and gas resourses are pushing us into the forest to scrounge for geo-watts?

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treeswarper
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PostWed Nov 23, 2011 7:59 am 
rap wrote:
If you have something to say, then say it. Do you mean the people who will not let us develope our abundent oil and gas resourses are pushing us into the forest to scrounge for geo-watts?
I would say it is that silly referendum that was passed which forces us to develop "greener" energy. Dams are not considered to be green. Maybe we should paint them. Would that referendum pass in our current economy? I'd like to see it put up to a vote again.

What's especially fun about sock puppets is that you can make each one unique and individual, so that they each have special characters. And they don't have to be human––animals and aliens are great possibilities
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MtnGoat
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PostWed Nov 23, 2011 10:40 am 
Gosh I would never go so far as to delve into anything even remotely hinting at politics. rolleyes.gif Let's just say that intentionally placing roadblocks in the way of producing what is economical and energy dense has resulted in this scrounging for watts and despoiling huge tracts in some areas and little known smaller places in others for marginal energy yields at high cost per watt.

Diplomacy is the art of saying 'Nice doggie' until you can find a rock. - Will Rogers
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rap
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PostSun Nov 27, 2011 6:54 am 
I can't improve on that statement.

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touron
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PostSun Jan 22, 2012 11:50 am 
Geothermal in Oregon
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Geothermal energy developers plan to pump 24 million gallons of water into the side of a dormant volcano in Central Oregon this summer to demonstrate new technology they hope will give a boost to a green-energy sector that has yet to live up to its promise.

Touron is a nougat of Arabic origin made with almonds and honey or sugar, without which it would just not be Christmas in Spain.
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MtnGoat
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PostMon Jan 23, 2012 11:43 am 
Frackin' it in all but name...
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How it EGS works Wells are drilled deep into the rock, and water is pumped in, creating tiny fractures in the rock, a process known as hydroshearing. Cold water is pumped down production wells into the reservoir, and the steam is drawn out. Hydroshearing is similar to the process known as hydraulic fracturing, used to free natural gas from shale formations. But fracking uses chemical-laden fluids, and creates huge fractures. Pumping fracking wastewater deep underground for disposal likely led to recent earthquakes in Arkansas and Ohio. Fears persist that cracking rock deep underground through hydroshearing can also lead to damaging quakes. EGS has other problems. It is hard to create a reservoir big enough to run a commercial power plant. Progress has been slow. Two small plants are online in France and Germany. A third in downtown Basel, Switzerland, was shut down over earthquake complaints. A project in Australia has had drilling problems. A new international protocol is coming out at the end of this month that urges EGS developers to keep projects out of urban areas, the so-called "sanity test," said Ernie Majer, a seismologist with the Lawrence Berkeley National Laboratory. It also urges developers to be upfront with local residents so they know exactly what is going on.

Diplomacy is the art of saying 'Nice doggie' until you can find a rock. - Will Rogers
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rap
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PostFri Feb 24, 2012 7:59 am 
SNOPUD announced two days ago that the well at Garland is a total flop and that they are going to pull out and restore the site in accordance with the contract and the desires of the Sharpe family. Outside of the property owners and those who love the outdoors, there are no winners. The project cost many millions and served nothing other than the destruction of a very beautiful place. In the end, it was luck that saved Garland and the surrounding loop area from Index to Garland to Snohomish. SNOPUD was heartless and would have developed the entire area with many wells, miles of pipes and huge transmission poles. They would have squeezed every watt they could find. The failure is a huge defeat for SNOPUD and General Manager Steve Klein who ran for office on a green-energy platform. The same is true for Craig Collar, the man in charge of developing the various green-energy projects like small hydro and tidal. All of these projects have been plagued with technical problems, cost overruns and have not been worth the effort. SNOPUD's Craig Collar has been very secretive about revealing the baseline temperatures of the well. One worker at the site confided that the well never found a resevoir with temperatures any where close to those needed for a geothermal plant.

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Schroder
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PostTue Jul 24, 2012 5:59 am 
The latest on this project - Geothermal energy project a bust after drilling hits bedrock
Quote:
The PUD is working with consultants to study other parts of the Cascades that might pan out for geothermal power, said Craig Collar, PUD manager for energy resource development. ... Two areas look promising, based on preliminary information, Norman said. One is the area between Mount St. Helens and the Columbia River. "Mount Baker has some potential as well," he said.

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rap
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PostWed Jul 25, 2012 3:46 am 
The entire thing was a bust, and one that SnoPUD knew was a total bust as early as late Nov. of last year. When they hit bed rock it was game over, yet they continued to lie to us until late Spring when they announced the well was a failure. Now they are trying to drill the Beckler which is less promising than Garland. The Herald story was months late and many $ millions short. It was the very minimum story required, considering all the SnoPUD hype they printed earlier. Everytime they wrote a story the $ millions the drilling effort was to cost went up. They just printed whatever Craig Collar told them.

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Kim Brown
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PostMon Aug 06, 2012 9:29 pm 
Here is a scoping comment letter by a collaboration of 14 local organizations (link is at the bottom of page). Good job, collaborationof 14 local organizations. up.gif

"..living on the east side of the Sierra world be ideal - except for harsher winters and the chance of apocalyptic fires burning the whole area." Bosterson, NWHiker's marketing expert
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silence
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PostTue Aug 07, 2012 7:24 am 
they really did their homework ... very informative reading ...thx for posting kim

PHOTOS FILMS Keep a good head and always carry a light bulb. – Bob Dylan
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Kim Brown
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PostTue Aug 07, 2012 12:12 pm 
Here's a repeat quote from several weeks ago, if anyone is interested in reading the background documents used in the formulation of this letter.
Kim Brown wrote:
Interesting stuff.Background on thermal exploration leases. In 2005, BLM conducted a NEPA for a Programmatic EIS]Programmatic EIS (PEIS) for geothermal exploration in the western states that outlined the framework for the process of geothermal lease requirements and restrictions on Federal land (restrictions include administratively withdrawn land). See this press release for a general discussion. Once the PEIS was signed, the MBS the issued its Record of Decision affirming the PEIS gives sufficient consideration to environment to is guidance for the process by which BLM will tap the USFS for leases. The ROD discusses lands the USFS will not consider leasing, and other framework to ensure compliance with the NW Forest Plan and amendments, and other policies, including Scenic Viewshed (no "surface occupancy") and critical areas (slope grade limitations, riparian areas). I don't know what is meant by "surface occupancy." It might mean exploration is OK, but no permanent infrastructure...? or no exploration or permanent infrastructure...? A separate NEPA would be done for each lease request BLM taps the USFS for. Anyway; interesting reading. I just started poking around on it these evening, so I don't know much. BLM California has a lot of geothermal projects. It might be work checking out what's gone on down there.

"..living on the east side of the Sierra world be ideal - except for harsher winters and the chance of apocalyptic fires burning the whole area." Bosterson, NWHiker's marketing expert
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