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Tom
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Tom
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PostThu Mar 15, 2012 8:29 pm 
Added another test running down the canisters on each stove from roughly equivalent starting points.

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hikin_jim
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PostThu Mar 15, 2012 9:48 pm 
Tom, Nice results! Thanks for doing some good testing. Interesting that for all practical purposes, the Reactor and the JB Sol were neck and neck on efficiency (the Reactor used 2g more, yes? -- 2g is basically negligible) Yeah, if it's stormy or I'm with someone else, I'd grab the Reactor. If it's calm and I'm solo, I'd grab the JB Sol. Thanks again for some super testing. HJ

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Allison
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PostThu Mar 15, 2012 10:39 pm 
Good to see baseline testing getting its due. Field testing is awesome, but it is way better with a baseline added. Want to take it up a notch? Do it in a lab.

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Tom
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PostThu Mar 15, 2012 11:02 pm 
What would that add? My baseline is the Reactor. I'm testing it side by side against the Sol in the real world. Every individual test is apples to apples. Same wind conditions, same water temp, same outside temp, etc. The consistency of the output speaks for itself. The only significant variant was boil time which increased as the canisters ran down. I do need to do more tests in the wind but I'd rather let mother nature provide the test.

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DIYSteve
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PostFri Mar 16, 2012 9:04 am 
Cool cool.gif The Reactor had two big advantages: the regulator and the shielded flame. Sol has the first, a big step up for JB. Looks like the Sol flame is not shielded like the Reactor (metal foam shield + tighter stove/pot interface) so I would expect the Sol's fuel efficiency and speed will fall off in whipping alpine winds vs. Reactor. It's REI dividend time so I might pick up a Sol. If so, it and the Reactor will get side-by-side use this year on my big group trips. While controlled backyard tests are helpful (I rely on mine to determine fuel quantity needs), for me nothing is a substitute for numerous nights of real time use in the high country. FWIW, out of curiosity I've disassembled and reassembled my Reactor and it appears to me a smaller lighter Reactor is possible. I wonder if MSR is working on a mini-Reactor. Also, as I noted on previous threads, per my tests the Reactor with the 2.5L pot is significantly (i.e., 20%+) more fuel efficient than the Reactor with the 1.5L pot for melting snow and boiling larger quantities of water.

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hikin_jim
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PostFri Mar 16, 2012 10:43 am 
BigSteve wrote:
the Reactor with the 2.5L pot is significantly (i.e., 20%+) more fuel efficient than the Reactor with the 1.5L pot for melting snow and boiling larger quantities of water.
Interesting. Is that mainly because you have to do multiple boils to get the large quantity of water or was your sense that the pot itself was in and of itself more efficient? HJ

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hikin_jim
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PostFri Mar 16, 2012 10:45 am 
Tom wrote:
The only significant variant was boil time which increased as the canisters ran down.
Tom, was that just toward the end or was it progressive? In other words did boil times increase consistently throughout the life of the canister or did the boil times only really increase as the canister approached empty? And, did you do anything to maintain a consistent canister temperature? Or did you just let the canisters cool from normal use? HJ

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DIYSteve
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PostFri Mar 16, 2012 11:55 am 
My 20%+ more efficient claim for the 2.5L pot is based on my own backyard tests. Some of those tests included boiling 1 liter of water. The 2.5L pot was consistently faster and used less fuel. I surmise that some of the increased efficiency is due to the larger diameter bottom pot surface. But I think a rather complex thermodynamic analysis would be necessary to get a complete answer. I recommend placing the canister in a water bath when the can gets down to 10% to 20% full. IME, Reactor boil times for a nearly empty canister in a water bath and a fresh canister are substantially the same. If the Sol regulator is similar, I would expect similar performance. The water bath can be easily made from a Costco cottage cheese or sour cream tub. As I've mentioned in other threads, I've experimented with copper wire heat exchangers, used with and without the water bath. They work but the water bath is easier. Based on Tom's comments re boil times as the cans ran down, I surmise that he was not using a water bath nor Cu wire heat exchanger.

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Tom
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PostFri Mar 16, 2012 11:55 am 
The Reactor boil time seemed to be impacted more than the Sol as the canister got close to empty (but still always faster to boil a liter than the Sol x 2). I was more interested in efficiency than boil times so got lazy and didn't track the boil times for the run down test. I didn't really notice it until the canister got close to empty. I tried to test them like I would use in the backcountry - 2 boils back to back for the Sol, and 1 boil for the reactor. Unless it helped with efficiency I wouldn't use a contraption in the backcountry to speed up boils (the Reactor is still plenty fast, even on its last legs). I waited 15 minutes or longer before repeating. The Reactor canister seemed to ice up a little more than the Sol after every 1 liter boil (even after the repeat 1/2 liter boil on the Sol).

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DIYSteve
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PostFri Mar 16, 2012 12:00 pm 
The Reactor can should ice up more because the rate of gas use, and corresponding internal can pressure change, are greater. Again, IME any material decrease in boil times can be avoided with a water bath and/or Cu wire heat exchanger, so it's a non-issue for me.

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Tom
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PostFri Mar 16, 2012 12:17 pm 
Yeah, non issue, that's why I didn't focus too much on boil times and focused more on efficiency. The Reactor is about 25% faster if you want to boil 1L. I'd say definitely pick up a Sol if you want a lighter setup for 1-2 person trips. I really like having a piezo and boil time is fast enough. One other thing I forgot to add as far as likes. It looks like you can sip right out of the mug using the plastic lid (without burning your lips). So that's another weight savings vs. bringing a cup with the Reactor. The other little cup can be used as a small bowl or separate cup.

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iron
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PostFri Mar 16, 2012 12:21 pm 
Tom wrote:
It looks like you can sip right out of the mug using the plastic lid (without burning your lips). So that's another weight savings vs. bringing a cup with the Reactor.
maybe. but, my experience has been that if the reactor pot is hot enough to burn my lips, so too is the contents within. we've never taken a mug along with us for drinking purposes.

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Tom
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Tom
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PostFri Mar 16, 2012 12:25 pm 
I usually bring a disposable cup but it starts falling apart after a few days. I'm not saying it's a huge savings, maybe less than an ounce. But it's just one thing you may not need to bring.

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hikin_jim
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PostFri Mar 16, 2012 12:49 pm 
BigSteve wrote:
My 20%+ more efficient claim for the 2.5L pot is based on my own backyard tests. Some of those tests included boiling 1 liter of water. The 2.5L pot was consistently faster and used less fuel. I surmise that some of the increased efficiency is due to the larger diameter bottom pot surface.
Now that's interesting. I would not have suspected quite that much difference. I would have thought that the heat exchanger and entrainment of exhaust would have made more difference than the pot diameter. Fascinating. HJ

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hikin_jim
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PostFri Mar 16, 2012 12:50 pm 
BigSteve wrote:
The Reactor can should ice up more because the rate of gas use, and corresponding internal can pressure change, are greater.
That would be my thought as well. Very sharp eyes, Tom, for picking that up. HJ

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